From: attila <attila@primenet.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 06:13:31 +0800
To: perry@piermont.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks vs. Coderpunks
Message-ID: <199602242149.OAA22592@usr2.primenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


** Reply to note from Perry E. Metzger <perry@piermont.com> 02/13/96  1:29pm -0500

  [snip] 
= The thing that makes Cypherpunks worthwhile is that its a place where
= you could, once, get news updates about GAK, information on the latest
= research into cryptography, organize mass key crackings, discuss APIs,
= talk a bit about the politics of cryptography, etc.
= 
    sounds like we're having the sme problems as "democracy" --it soon becomes  
irrelevant!  example:

	I was out of town for 6 days: I returned to find 1056 messages in the sorted 
    mailbox!  yes: 1056 messages which it took close to an hour to delete almost 800 
    of them as irrelevant. some you can discard automatically depending on the 
    author, some by content, etc. but I agree: it is clutter.

= Now, we get anonymous posters putting up bits on corruption in the
= DEA, sections of Tsutomu Shimomura's sex life, and other garbage. I
= don't give a damn if you think "Perry's a whining asshole; no one
= appointed him God", the stuff I'm mentioning is almost totally
= irrelevant to the topic at hand. (I *still* see no relevance to the
= late great Kevin Mitnick discussion, and frankly, I don't give a damn
= if he's in jail.) I also really am not impressed enough with the
= justification for why Jim Bell's "ideas" need to be discussed here.
= 
    well, it's probably worthwhile to announce the events, but not to comment ad  
infinitum on the gossip, the inferences, etc. --as you put it: the sex life of TS,  
particularly at the expense of one long term member.

    jim bell had the chance to publish his ideas --I read them  --once. I may be an  
"idealistic anarchist," but they are anarchy after the fact of submission to a  
government.  OK, they have been stated, but further discussion needs to move to  
another forum.  auto-trash filter....

    another major part of what I auto-trashed were two 50+ threads on some senseless  
topics which I have already forgotten. I suspect the poor snake was beaten to death  
by the BC Fat Lady....

= For some people without jobs (I won't name names) there is no problem
= with this. However, some of us have trouble keeping up, and
= unfortunately Cypherpunks has content that is key to our work and
= interests. 
= 
    THIS IS THE PROBLEM! Even if you do not have a fixed schedule, are not most of  
not data miners? It cost me over an hour to trim the message list from 1000+ to 200+.
WE NEED SOME SELF-RESTRAINT. 

= Sadly, there isn't another place with the momentum where people are a
= bit more polite and talk about the same information.
=
    unfortunately, the more publicity we receive, the more extraneous nonsense will  
be copied or target to us as a group.
 
= Yet.
= 
    well, I justify coderpunks since it breaks the ongoing technical discussions away  
from the mainstream cypherpunks. most of the information appears in cypherpunks  
itself, but if I must restrict my time, coderpunks comes first

= Perry

	as you say, Perry: 

	    'I don't give a damn if you think "Perry's a whining asshole; no one 
	    appointed him God"'

	I agree:
	
	    'I don't give a damn if they think "Attila's a whining asshole; no one 
	    appointed him God"'

	after all, as far as I know, I'm still "nobody" in the overall scheme, even  
    with a Piled higher and Deeper!  who _really_ cares what I think?

		-attila

"Fools fear adversity, but the wise man listens only to his conscience; or in other words,
"You've got exactly thirty seconds to get off my property before I start shooting, hippie."
        --Ching Chow


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