From: lunaslide@loop.com
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 14:28:04 +0800
To: "A. Padgett Peterson P.E. Information Security"	 <PADGETT%TCCSLR@emamv1.orl.mmc.com>
Subject: Re: Re:
Message-ID: <v01530500ad46b5aec2ac@[204.179.169.44]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


}>sovereign n. 1. A person, governing body, etc., in whom the >supreme power
}>or authority is vested.<  adj. 1. Exercising or possessing supreme
}>authority or jurisdiction.  2. Independent, and free from external
}>authority or influence: a sovereign state.
}
}Yup.
}
}>This is not what our government is.
}
}The United States is a sovereign nation. Do you dispute that ? The
}constitution is a binding agreement between the government and its citizens
}that determines how that sovereignty will be exercised, the elements in which
}the nation will not interfere with citizens, and the duties which it will
}carry out.

No, but I do dispute that the _U.S. Government_ is sovereign.  I'm not
going to write why all over again, since you seem to have convieniently
snipped the rest of my post, rather than answer it.  You are commiting a
straw man fallacy.  I didn't say that the nation isn't soveriegn, I said
that the government is not sovereign.  Yes, there is a difference.

}The three branches of the government were set up to ensure that "supreme
}power" would never rest with a single entity, yet taken together they do have
}that power.


The three branches are a system of checks and balances to counter the the
immergence of one sovereign pwoer.  See, it is actually built into the
constution that the govt cannot be sovereign!

}Congress and the Senate are the legally empowered representatives of the
}people. In that they do have the "power of the people" to make decisions
}on what is right and what is wrong within limits. That too is defined in
}the constitution.

The Congress is the Senate and the House, and they are given specific
powers by the people to govern themselves in relation to the job in Article
1, Sections 1-7 and to govern the people in Article 1, Sections 8-10.  The
powers given are very specific in nature and involve mostly limited
legislative powers and taxing abilities.

The President is given his rights and duties to govern the people in
Article 2, Sections 2 and 3 and they include the power to command the army
and navy, give pardons, make treaties and appoint people to positions as
Judges, Ambassadors and the like.  He has the duty to give a State of the
Union address from "time to time" to inform and ask for recomendation and
consideration on matters ofhis choosing.  He also has the right to conviene
both houses of congress to discuss matters.

In Article one, he is also given the power of the veto.

The Judicial branch, and particularly the Supreme Court, is given the power
to rule on matters concerning the court involving laws and disputes.  They
have the power to refute laws and the duty to adhere to the principles of
the constitution.

The people have the right to dissent and may petition the govt for a
redress of grievances as dictated by Amendment one.  If they are not given
satisfaction, they still have the right to free speech and press so that
they may share their dissent with one another and affect the outcome of the
next election.

The Fourth Amendment, of course, protects the "...right of the people to be
secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable
searches and seizures..."  Clearly the govt cannot be sovereign if this is
true.

}Take the CDA. I do believe that it is unconstitutional but that Congress/
}Saxplayer had the *right* to pass the law just as the Supreme Court has the
}right to declare it to have been outside the power of the Congress to do so
}(which I expect). Somehow it works.

But ultimately it is the people who decide, and the people are not one with
the government.  The people have influence over the government, therefore
the government cannot be sovereign.

The first part of the Declaration of Independence indicates that it was
never the intent of the founding fathers to create a sovereign government,
refuting your nonsensical statement about it being "a given."

I ended up restating almost my whole case anyway.  But that's ok, cause
I'll just keep explaining until you understand it.

lunaslide

"Prohibition... goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to
control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things
that are not crimes... A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very
principles upon which our government was founded."
- -- Abraham Lincoln

On the meridian of time there is no injustice, only the poetry of motion
creating the illusion of truth and drama.
                                                Henry Miller
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