From: attila <attila@primenet.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:05:55 +0800
To: Bill Humphries <Bill.Humphries@msn.fullfeed.com>
Subject: CypherPunks as Teachers; source material [Re: Hey, we are quaint! , (Was: A Sign of the Future)]
In-Reply-To: <v01530501ad3c5337c614@[199.184.183.25]>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.960206055653.5857G-100000@usr6.primenet.com>
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	I agree:

	    "Cypherpunks Teach"
		Bill Humphries <Bill.Humphries@msn.fullfeed.com> 

    --the only way to get the message across.

	Jeffersonians?  Publicly, Jefferson espoused universal suffrage 
    for all Freemen as opposed to Madison-Hamilton-Federalists. Both sides
    had a fully "republican" bi-cameral legislature with separate executive
    and justice branches for the checks and balances.
	Jefferson differed in his approach to social issues: far more 
    empathetic than the Federalists who could exhibit traits of feudalism 
    rather easily. In his writings, etc. Jefferson could be considered a
    nascent libertarian.  How today's Democratic Party can claim 
    Jefferson as their founding father is certainly past my comprehension.

	The following are reprintings of excellent books:

            Works of Fisher Ames, as published by Seth Ames, W.B. Allen,
	editor, Indianapolis: Liberty Fund, two volumes, 1,708 pages,
	hardcover, $30.00. 
            Democracy and Liberty, by William Edward Hartpole Lecky,
	Indianapolis:  Liberty Fund, two volumes, 1,025 pages, hardcover,
	$20.00. 
    
    and well worth the read, despite their size. Lecky was a historian 
    with perspective, not a revisionist.  Excellent coverage of the fallacy
    of democracies starting with the Greek city-states. Ames was an American
    statesman (graduated from Harvard Law at 16) and was a Representative
    from Massachusetts in the first Congress thru 1799 when his ill-health
    forced retirement. In his writings, he states:

	    Democracy means the absolute reign of "public opinion," the
	disappearance of the rule of law, and the sweeping away of
	protections built into a true government of law. 

	Jefferson certainly would role over at the degeneration of "his"
    party which began in the 30s as liberal news, particularly radio,
    demagougues discovered they could fan the riff-raff and control the
    direction of government. 
	With Democratic control of the house all but six years from 1932
    to 1994 (48-54) and Democratic Presidents for all but 20 of 60 years: 
    [Eisenhower (if he was a Republican), Nixon-Ford, Reagan and Bush], 
    the cynical press effectively rewrote the modus operandi of the
    Federal government; with the advent of nationwide televison in the 
    late 50s --the deed was done.  Roosevelt started with "...a chicken 
    in every pot" but today that is a a piker --you need two cars in the 
    garage, TVs in every room, etc. or as quipped once (Butts on the way 
    to his media crucifixion): "...loose shoes, a tight pussy, and a warm
    place to shit."
	
	I have an excellent review of both books by Fr. James Thorton
    Notre Dame, I think.

	Anyone who would like a copy of the review, mail a blank message 
    with the Subject: DEM_lib and it shall be sent.

	Both texts clearly define what the problem is today even though 
    both are over 100 years old. the survivors of their length will have
    a clear understanding of limited republics and rabble-run democracy,
    and with Leaky's work, some excellent historical references.

	attila

On Mon, 5 Feb 1996, Bill Humphries wrote:

> Steve Levy replied to Alex Strasheim over an alledged 'plot' to discredit
> cypherpunks at Wired Magazine:
> 
> >Give me a break.  I do not work for Wired but I write for them at times,
> >and most often my subject is crypto related.
> 
> [...]
> 
> >On Mon, 5 Feb 1996, Alex Strasheim wrote [citing Gary Wolf 'channeling
> >McLuhan']:
> >
> >> >     Concerns about privacy and anonymity are outdated. Cypherpunks
> >> >     think they are rebels with a cause, but they are really senti-
> >> >     mentalists.
> >>
> >> I'm not much for big conspiracy theories, but I like the little ones.
> 
> <rant>
> 
> Hey folks, we are quaint Jeffersonians for the most part here. We believe
> that reasoned arguement should carry the day instead of FUD (fear,
> uncertainty and doubt). And that privacy is a good thing. Whereas modern,
> marketing driven media (as described by McLuhan) will use FUD and whatever
> else it takes to deliver an audience. Ask any of the people who have been
> publicly tarred as Nazi's for their involvement over the Zundel/Hollow
> Earth/webcom business.
> 
> Wolf's portrayal of McLuhan is spot on, because media producers who give a
> damn about anonymity and privacy aren't going to land the big contracts.
> The money to buy bandwidth and servers wants the highest quality data
> availiable so we can be coerced to spend every minute we aren't working,
> commuting, sleeping, or fornicating (was f*cking before the CDA) as
> 'consumers.'
> 
> And many people aren't going to think of these issues, not because they are
> dumb, but because they are so busy working to provide for their families to
> spend any time in the reflective/meditative state required to make
> political choices.
> 
> I suggest that Cypherpunks add one more slogan to their list:
> 
>                "Cypherpunks teach."
> 
> Because no one is going to invest in the time and effort to use PGP,
> remailers, and blind web proxies unless they understand why they should.
> I'm going to invest in the time to show my family and friends why these
> technologies are important so when I mention PGP to someone they'll have
> something other than the soundbite "only Nazis use strong encryption" to
> fall back on.
> 
> </rant>
> 
> bill.humphries@msn.fullfeed.com
> "The more you know, the more jokes you get" -- Tompkins and Kaufman
> 
> 

__________________________________________________________________________
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_________________________________________________________________ attila__

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....
    There is no safety this side of the grave.  Never was; never will be.