From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 96 19:38:43 PST
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Bombings, Surveillance, and Free Societies
Message-ID: <ad60f3f80c021004bafb@[205.199.118.202]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 1:28 AM 3/5/96, Phillip M. Hallam-Baker wrote:
>Timothy C. May wrote:
>
>>The Red Brigade in Italy sought a fascist crackdown, and
>> the "strategy of tension" is common. (And even revolutionists of crypto
>> anarchist persuasion often think laws like the CDA are good in the long
>> run, by undermining respect for authority and triggering more extreme
>> reactions....)
>
>It is important to note in this regard that the worst bombing in Italy was
>the Bologna station bombing, now decisively linked to right wing facist
>groups the involvment in which of ex-prime minister Adreotti is shortly to
>be examined in a criminal trial. The point being that the extreemists play
>into each others hands.

Yes, it is hard to know even which side is pulling the strings. The WW2
Italian fascist commando leader, Otto Skorzeny, not only rescued Mussolini
from a ski chalet, he also helped set up the PLO in the 1960s, and
consulted for the OSS, CIA, and such. (There is much more to say about
this, and about the role of the early NSA in such affairs. However,
continuing down this path will produce the inevitable perrygrams from the
acerbic Mr. Metzger demanding "What does this have to [whatever my current
interest is]?"))

>> -- expect the various laws about "talking about explosives on the Net" to
>> be used to clamp down on various fringe groups
>
>Hang on here, some of those groups are actively conspiring to commit
>terrorist acts. If someone sends a message saying "lets plant a bomb
>under a federal building, that will show them" I'm not worried if the
>govt. decides to arrest a few people. There is a border between free
>speech and conspiracy to murder which some people have crossed.

I don't buy this. I said "talking about explosives on the Net," not openly
conspiring to plant bombs in federal buildings. A big difference. (Not that
I am aware of the OKC bombers discussing their plans on the Usenet.)


>> I predict that it will take about 5 more major bombings in European and
>> American cities to trigger substantive changes in laws.
>
>Generally it takes two. The legislation is written after the first and
>then staled until being passed on the second.

I am sandbagging by saying "5." I wasn't referring to 5 in, say, the U.S.,
but to 5 or so "horrific" bombs in Western countries, plus Israel. A second
Oklahoma City-type bombing may be enough, a Sarin attack that kills 1,000
will almost surely be enough. (In the bigger scheme of things, the 150-200
or so who died in OKC are a drop in the bucket, and I wouldn't advocate
_any_ new surveillance laws for them...putting a day care center in a soft
target demonstrates the callousness of the Feds.)

>> Personally, while I feel sorry for the dead in Israel, I think anyone who
>> moves to a small desert state surrounded on all sides by Arabs who want
>> their land back is asking for trouble.
>
>A point to consider is that there are many Isralis born in Israel who have no
>other home. These people did not ask to be born in the middle of a desert
>state. As with the Irish problem it is easy to solve if one could change
>the past. The fundamental problem being that the wrong side won at Hastings.

Let me use the language Bill Stewart used a while back, language which
skirts the issue of "right" and "wrong" even more neatly than I did (when I
said the Jews were "asking for trouble"):

"If a religious group uses force to expel the current occupants of a desert
region, and expels them to just beyond their borders, it is "unsurprising"
that those expelled, and their children, and their children's children,
will swear a blood oath to drive the group into the sea."

Put another way, I will not be "surprised" to wake up one morning and hear
on CNN that Tel Aviv has been vaporized in a nuclear explosion. Nor will I
be surprised to similarly learn that Damascus has been vaporized, and so
on.

Being an atheist, I treat all religious mystics as suspect. When a bunch of
people leave London and Chicago and Paris to live in the desert, surrounded
by sworn enemies with nuclear capabilities, I think whatever happens to
them is...."unsurprising."

I hope this makes my outlook clearer. (And Cypherpunks should fully
understand that information-trading systems and unbreakably encryption--the
very technologies we so ardently are pushing--make certain actions even
less "surprising" than might otherwise be the case. Think of it as
evolution in action.)


--Tim May

Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software!
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1  | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."