From: Gary Howland <gary@kampai.euronet.nl>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:21:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Leahy bill nightmare scenario?
Message-ID: <199603112056.VAA12425@kampai.euronet.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Timothy C. May writes:
>At 11:12 AM 3/11/96, Gary Howland wrote:
>>Dan Weinstein writes:
>
>>> If I rent cars, someone might one day use a car rented from me in a
>>> robbery.  Does that make my an accessary?  NO.
>>
>>This is an unfair analogy.  Now if you had said that you rented cars
>>without asking for proof of identification, thus making your car hire
>>centre very useful to robbers, that may more closely resemble the
>>anon-remailer situation.
>
>If a hotel rents a room to someone who commits a crime in that room, e.g.,
>prostitution, drug use, plotting to blow up a building, can the hotel be
>seized under the asset forfeiture laws?

I didn't initially use the the car-hire analogy, I was just trying to
bring it more into line with the anon-remailer situation.  Perhaps a
better example would be an agency set up for the sole purpose of hiring
cars on behalf of anonymous customers - as long as the customers didn't
abuse the anonymous facility too much, then I guess they would be allowed
to carry on operating, much like the remailers operate at present.
However, I guess they're in for trouble when their service starts being
abused at the expense of big brother, and I guess their policy of shredding
all evidence at weekends won't help matters either.


>If I let someone use my telephone without confirming his identity, am I
>liable for crimes committed with this phone?
>
>This last example is, I submit,  a nearly perfect parallel to anonymous
>remailers. And not because the telephone system is a "common carrier," but
>because of scienter: I have no knowledge, and cannot be expected to have
>knowledge, of crimes committed with my phone.

But this doesn't match the remailer scenario - this example is better
likened to me letting you use my email account whilst at my house.


>And, finally, packages and letters may be mailed anonymously. This is what
>pre-paid stamps are all about. And I've used non-U.S. Postal Service
>package delivery sytems without providing identification. Can Federal
>Express have their assets seized because of "anonymous remailing"?
>(Quibblers will no doubt cite laws requiring FedEx to "cooperate," demand
>ID, etc.)

Yes, but when was the last time someone physically mailed copyright source
code (eg RC2) to half the world?  When was the last time a pair of lawyers
made worldwide news due to making a phone call?
Again, the anon-postal-mail/anon-telephone-call analogy doesn't work.


Gary
--
pub  1024/C001D00D 1996/01/22  Gary Howland <gary@kampai.euronet.nl>
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