From: JonWienke@aol.com
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 06:55:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Multiple spinners as sources of entropy?
Message-ID: <960313131931_245051343@mail06.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 96-03-13 02:04:12 EST, you write:

>Practically there may be less entropy from a couple of bits than from 
>several bits. I've done tests with keyboard sampling on DOS machines. 
>Especially when I've tried setting the system clock to a higher rate. 
>In one case the samples were 3/4 of the time even.
>
>It seems better to estimate the entropy based on how-often samples 
>occur (akin to arithmetic compression, only we're just counting bits) 
>and output hashed data.
>
>Of course, if the raw samples are predictable enough, that *is* a 
>problem.  Depending on the source, how does one test if a method is 
>"truly" random?
>
>BTW, fast timing measurements from disk access seem to be pretty 
>good...

Another thing to try is to take the low-order byte of 2 timer readings based
on keystrokes (check the timer value when the key is pressed), flip one
around (so bit 0 is exchanged with bit 7, bit 1  is exchanged with bit 6,
etc.) and then XOR them together.  This will minimize the skew of any
individual bit.

You could do this with sound card samples as well.  Input noise into your
sound card (seperate noise sources for the left and right channels) and take
16-bit samples.  Take the low-order bytes of the left and right samples, flip
one around, and XOR them together.  Should be extremely random.

For a cheap noise source, use 2 Walkmans, each tuned to a different FM
station gap.  Connect them to the line inputs of the sound card, and adjust
the volume so they are almost, but not quite clipping.

Whatever method is used, running the data through a good hash function breaks
up any patterns even more.  I am working on an RC4 mutation that allows
random input and output to be processed continuously.  It stores the S-box
and the counters I and J in static variables that are preserved between
calls, and uses a status parameter to determine whether to output a byte or
input one.  Email me if interested in details.

Jonathan Wienke