From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 14:28:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: The Joy of Java
Message-ID: <ada697c601021004c3a0@[205.199.118.202]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 6:51 PM 4/26/96, Bill Frantz wrote:
>Tim May and Mike Duvos have expresses an enthusiasm for Java which I share.
> There are a few practical issues which should be addresses.

And bear in mind that "enthusiasm" does not mean certitude. We've all
gotten enthusiastic at times about some Next Big Thing. I count this
enthusiasm as part of the larger Web picture, which is unlikely to fizzle
out.

>Tim says:
>>One interesting remark I read from someone was that the Java distribution
>>model returns us to an era of easier distribution of small programs. The
>>"application bloat" of very large programs may be at least partly fixed.
>>We'll see.
>
>I have my doubts about this one.  I think application bloat comes from
>market forces and from the kind of bundling you see in XYZCorpOffice
>products where you get 4 applications packaged together.  This marketing
>approach maximizes revenue by selling you products you don't need as a
>matter of convenience.  But, we shall see.

If you mean "Microsoft Office," I wasn't really thinking of this. The point
this person I cited (I don't remember who it was) was that this makes it
easier for a application to get "shelf space," because the shelf is the
Web. Payment is problematic, but distribution should be easy.

Obviously, Mosaic (and then Netscape) was a good example of this. A small
team, or even a single person, with a Good Idea, gets distribution. The Net
and Unix have long had this (with Unix tools and languages), but the Web
and applets may well extend this to a broader base.

We'll see.

>There are some features of Java which make it less than ideal for crypto
>applications.  These features can be overcome, but they will affect
>implementors and users.

I think the interesting target date to plan for is a year from now.

>(1) There are not many sources of high-quality entropy available to Java
>applets.  Keystroke timings and scribble windows are probably the best
>sources, but may represent an inconvenience for users.

Shouldn't be any worse or any better than with the status quo, right? I'm
not sure I see the Java issue. (I've been looking at SoundClip and
AudioClip, but only cursorily.)

By the way, Hal Finney is working on a bignum package.


--Tim May

Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software!
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."