From: "Michael C. Peponis" <mianigand@[205.164.13.10]>
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 12:58:10 +0800
To: "Declan B. McCullagh" <declan+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: I have seen the enemy, and it is us (was Know Your Net.Enemies)
Message-ID: <199604111831.OAA17305@Fe3.rust.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 10 Apr 96 ,Declan B. McCullagh wrote:

> Would anyone be interested in collaborating on a "Know Your Net Enemies"
> project?
> 
> We'd start with a resource like Bob Chatelle's excellent web pages at
> <http://world.std.com/~kip/bcfenatl.html> and with permission build on
> it and list the deceptions and misrepresentations each Net-Enemy has
> engaged in -- what each has done to restrict liberty online. We'd
> include original documents and links as appropriate.
> 
> Who would be listed? Well, there's the family values groups
> [AFA/CC/NLC/EE!/FOF/FRC], the green card spammers, Carnegie Mellon
> University, Marty Rimm, the Church of Scientology, the Simon Wiesenthal
> Center, the NSA, German state prosecutors, Senator Exon, Dorothy
> Denning, and so on.

> Anyone interested? This would be a great resource.

Sure, it's worth a shot, but what is the ultimate goal???

I have noticed that there has been alot of noise about who is doing 
what, but instead of whining and crying, what are we going to do 
about it????

Cryptology lets people put an envelope on their communications, which 
is a significant achievment.  Digital signatures allow for 
authentication, another acheivement, but what else could be coded?

Sure, it is technicaly possible to set up net sites whos physical 
location could not be determined without alot of effort, but at that 
point, the war has already been lost, that practice is just 
minimizing the extent of the loss.

Seems all the end result is just rialing up everybody, and repeting 
ad nausum how stupid these people are, like we didn't know that 
before.

These are not technical problems, they can not be coded out of 
existance.  The problem is with people, and must be delt with at that 
level.

Legislation and debate will not do a damm thing, we have our views, 
others have thiers, and the two will never meet.  Personally, I don't 
even respect the family groups, national security types, etc, thus I 
really do not care about thier concerns or feelings, nor do they care 
for mine.

At some point and time, people are going to decide for themselves 
what is their freedom worth.  Are they willing to give up all the 
benifits of a parential govement taking care of them so that they can 
be truely free.

I would say no, even most people here are all for freedom, as long as 
it does not cost them anything.

They are all for freedom as long as they don't have to live in fear 
for their life because absolute freedom means that everybody can do 
whatever they want, and some people have no problem blowing you away 
for the stupidest reasons.

Such is human nature, alot of people are not very nice, sorry, that 
is the way it is.

The other one was "We need a stable enviorment to continue generating 
captital so we can afford to by new toys"

Again, we have a choice, give up our freedom for the toys, or give up 
the toys to be free.

As has been said many times before FREEDOM ISN'T FREE.
Regards,
Michael C. Peponis
Public Key Avalible Via Key Servers, or Finger