From: "Jean-Francois Avon" <jf_avon@citenet.net>
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:03:35 +0800
To: liberty@gate.net (Jim Ray)
Subject: Re: AP
Message-ID: <9605201825.AA00501@cti02.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On 20 May 96 at 10:28, Jim Ray wrote:


> >A long time ago (few hours) JFA replied to Vlad Z. Nuri (but
> >Jim Ray seemed to indicate that >his other name was L.
> >Detweiller) : 

> >I think that you are writing way out of context.  >

> >First, wether or not the AP scheme is used for the control of
> >government, as Jim Bell pushes it, does not mean that it will not
> >be implemented for other purposes, such as killing successful
> >businessman or your neighboor's son who is screwing your wife
> >(noticed that she smiles all the time since a while? ) . > >Second,
> >everybody like Jim Bell who is pushing the AP scheme is >doing so
> >on ethical basis: that the coercion the government imposes >on to
> >the individuals by regulations, and guns backed taxation >justifies
> >the killings.  I have to see yet any cypherpunks who >seems to
> >agree with AP that envision another use than govt control. >
> 
> I disagree BECAUSE of the other likely uses, & see below.

Just the one I pointed out in theses two paragraphs.  I don't like 
the scheme either.

> >And you'll also note that the anonymity issue generate more
> >interest from more CPunks because it (hopefully) will acheive the
> >same goal without any killing.
> 

> our
> anonymity-baby threatens to have govt. kill it in the crib,

It is not yours, it only *is*.

> with the support of the people. 

Here, again, Jim Bell would probably say that this sentence proves 
him right...

> I have not respected a US
> president in my lifetime, yet I get _pissed_ when they get
> shot/shot at.

I somehow agree with you here.

> Killing seems to be a first resort for some,
> and IMO ends do not justify means.

Well, here, you are threading on a very difficult path.  Of course, 
the ends does never justifies the means in an *uncoerced* context.  
But what JB says, is that AP would be a justified "self defense" 
against coercion.  It is only that the self-defense uses statistics.  
You'll note that the psycho-epistemology necessary to commit murder 
is quite close to the one necessary to coerce poeples to pay taxes.

Thus, he might pretend (JB) to only turn the living expression of an 
idea against itself.

Personnally?  I still was not able to sort it out...

Ciao

JFA

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