From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May)
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:05:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: [crypto] crypto-protocols for trading card games
Message-ID: <add2640a2302100446f7@[205.199.118.202]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 8:56 PM 5/29/96, David F. Ogren wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 May 1996, Simon Spero wrote:
>>
>> > Design a set of crypto protocols to support the issuing, trading,
>> > and playing of such card games in real time (100ms compute time
>> > per move)
>>
>> I'd been thinking about it from the opposite point of view: make up
>> a card game (possibly electronic, like what you're proposing) that
>> acts as intro to crypto for the untamed hordes of game players.
>>
>I've had similar ideas, but there are snags.  Card playing via
>encryption techniques is a great idea in theory, but in reality the
>technical requirements often prevent implementation.

I didn't comment earlier, because I didn't want to sound like the old-timer
who claims an idea is an old one, but "card games" were in fact cited as a
perfect example of a "tools needed" situation. At least 3 years ago, and
probably closer to 3.5 years ago, there was discussion of the cryptographic
primitives needed to play cards.

(I mean on the Cypherpunks list...there was certainly academic research on
"fair coin tosses over insecure lines" and "card games" going back at least
15 years. Specifically, some of the work on "mental poker" and "bit
commitment" is very directly related to playing games over insecure lines.)

In fact, one of the goals Eric Hughes and I had in our early discussions,
before this group and this mailing list, was of what it would take to make
real, or reify, the many academic results of cryptography. (Only the
simplest of which are "secure communications" and "digital signatures.")

Dice games, card games, numbers games, are only special cases of the larger
issue of "mutually untrusted agents" and the interactions they can handle.

I applaud Simon Spero's interest, even if it others raised similar issues a
few years ago. Actually, little progress has been made, so there is much
work still to be done.

--Tim May

Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software!
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed.
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Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
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