From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:25:18 +0800
To: "E. ALLEN SMITH" <EALLENSMITH@ocelot.Rutgers.EDU>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: TCM: mafia as a paradigm for cyberspace
In-Reply-To: <01I4ZKIOEV7G8Y5IL9@mbcl.rutgers.edu>
Message-ID: <199605221952.MAA29965@netcom11.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I will quote an anonymous AP proponent with the initials EAS

>>the above sentence I find absolutely abhorrent: it justifies killing,
>>not merely because of the effect (the sort of "ends-justifies-the-means"
>>argument used by most here), but that in addition it is 
>>supposedly "ethical". ethical?!?!? for g*d's sakes, promote your
>>depraved scheme under any other heading, but do not claim it is
>>"ethical" unless you want to further demonstrate how far from
>>morality you have twisted your brain.
>
>	In other words, if I'm shooting at you, it's unethical for you to
>shoot back?

get a clue. I didn't argue against someone shooting at you. I argued
against the claim that you should be allowed to shoot anyone in
the government because you think the government is corrupt.

 While I'm not sure whether I approve of Assasination Politics or
>not (I'm not sure whether it'd lead to more or less violations of rights than
>other possible means of changing the current setup),

as I wrote, there is no such thing as a "right" in a society in which
people decide who they would like to kill based on their own whims.
there are no rights in a socieity in which killing is considered an everyday
part of life, period. note I do agree this applies to some forms of 
government. 

 I do achnowledge the
>rightness of self-defense against governmental evildoing.

ah, now there's where the silly non-sequitur of AP proponents comes
in. "the government is corrupt, therefore we should be able to shoot
any government employees we choose". the government is not sticking
a gun down your throat this minute, are they? well, why are you
seriously contemplating the converse? oh, you say that FIGURATIVELY
the government is doing this to you? and you want to respond
LITERALLY? I wonder who is the tyrant in this situation?

"the government might shoot me if I don't pay my taxes". uhm, can
you point out who this actually happened to you? what? you have
an example? out of the 250 million people in this country, you
actually found one? and you are concerned this will happen to you?
well if you keep making a lot of noise, maybe you can achieve
what appears to be your wildest fantasy!!

AP proponents piss on the english language in their quest for
"justice". the ways that AP proponents are twisting language, 
AP trash is almost worse than much classic government
propaganda that has started past wars. "we have rights. we
want justice. our rights are being violated. we are acting
in self defense."  TRASH, TRASH, TRASH

 To use your
>example of Hitler, somehow I think an assasination of him would have been
>ethical.

I used him as an example of the kind of thinking that "murdering your
enemies solves all your problems". yes, that was his point of view, and
you inform me that you share it? well, congratualations!! hitler
doesn't have too many friends and can use all the sympathy he can get.

murdering Hitler would not have
solved all the problems of WWII. the problem was militarism that
was embodied by many cultures outside of his own, e.g. Japan and
Russia.

AP proponents believe that:

1. the world is full of people that are part of the problem or part
of the solution

2. I can tell precisely the difference

3. I'd like to kill those that are part of the problem.

4. if AP existed, and it appeared there was a way to kill other people
without trace, I would go through with it.

5. I have a lot of teachers I hated in my childhood too. I think I
will go for them next. possibly not before seeing if they beg for mercy.