From: pjb@ny.ubs.com (Paul J. Bell)
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 13:34:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fingerprinting annoyance
Message-ID: <9605151843.AA27573@sherry.ny.ubs.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sometimes it has nothing to do with the employer. 

For example, for those of us who work on Wall Street, that is to say, 
in the financial services industry, the SEC requires that all employees submit 
to a background check, drug test and fingerprint check (National Agency Check) 
before you can be hired.  Failure to require these checks, and to refuse 
employment to those that don't pass these test, results in a very large fine 
for the employer.  This is not a one-time thing.  You must undergo these test
everytime you change jobs, even when moving from one firm to another in the 
same business.

Many of us find this an onerous process, but for the compensation, 
(top grade Sys Admins and developers can make >$250,000 per year), many of us put
up with it. This, BTW, does not apply just to traders, etc, but to everyone.  

Not only must you put up with all this bull shit, but you must also deal, 
on a daily basis, with some of the biggest assholes on the face of the earth.  
Suffering fools is just the beginning.

We do it all for, $$$, of course.

As someone once said, we are all whores, it's just a matter of determining our price.


 
Cheers,
	-paul

> From cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Wed May 15 03:05:51 1996
> Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:28:38 -0700
> X-Sender: tcmay@mail.got.net
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> Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset="us-ascii"> 
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May)
> Subject: Re: Fingerprinting annoyance
> Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com
> Content-Length: 3095
> 
> At 6:26 PM 5/13/96, Mark O. Aldrich wrote:
> >On Mon, 13 May 1996, Senator Exon wrote:
> >
> ><snip>
> >> i can fill out and manipulate the card myself i just need a
> >> working method.
> >> is there no privacy advocate who can help me?
> >>
> >
> >I think most privacy advocates would advise, "Refuse to submit."  It
> >sounds like you're looking for more of a hack on the fingerprinting process.
> 
> And if you are working for me, and I ask for a fingerprint, and you refuse
> or "smear" the results (repeatedly, as the first smearing I may just take
> as your token protest and have you printed again), you'll be out the door
> by the end of the day.
> 
> (Personally, I've never worked for a company which demands fingerprints,
> but I've worked for companies which demanded ID badges and signatures, and
> these are effectively as intrusive. And I suspect that my former employers
> are now using thumbprints, and maybe full prints.)
> 
> What one "doesn't like" and considers an "invasion of privacy" varies from
> person to person. Some people think having their picture taken is a
> stealing of their soul. Others fear nefarious things will be done with the
> DNA from their blood samples.
> 
> Trying to convince a company that photo ID badges and fingerprints are Bad
> Things is perhaps admirable, just realize that in a free society that
> employer is under no obligation to hire someone who refuses to go along
> with the company's security policies. (This relates to the "civil rights"
> thread.)
> 
> 
> >of like a key certificate.  If you really can dork the card, have ten
> >different people volunteer one print each.  There's no way that they'll
> >ever be able to use that as evidence in a court or for any other purpose,
> >either.
> 
> A stupid idea. As the employer, I wouldn't have to prove it a court of
> law...suspicion alone that some of my employees were fucking up a security
> system might be enough for me to either a. promote them to the Tiger Team,
> or b. fire their asses.
> 
> (I just can't understand where this pervasive meme is coming from here on
> this list, the notion that employers are severely limited in what they can
> do to employees unless they can "prove it in court. Like it or not, most
> employees in the United States are still employed "at will," and are not
> covered by employment contracts such as some executives and the like get.)
> 
> >If you're forced to do this in person with a tech, you can continuously
> >"fight" the grip they have on your hand and smudge the card.  However,
> 
> Sure. It makes it easy for the employer to simply say "Next candidate."
> 
> 
> --Tim May
> 
> Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software!
> We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed.
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
> "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
> 
> 
> 
> 
>