From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:10:00 +0800
To: "E. ALLEN SMITH" <EALLENSMITH@ocelot.Rutgers.EDU>
Subject: assassinating an AP proponent
In-Reply-To: <01I50J36B3OG8Y4X9G@mbcl.rutgers.edu>
Message-ID: <199605231919.MAA27630@netcom15.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>
>	Nobody, so far as I know, is arguing that one ought to shoot anyone
>in the government... I'd be in danger if that were the case, given that my
>current employer is a state university.

uhm, I hate to bring this up, but the topic of discussion is 
ASSASSINATION POLITICS. those that are in favor of it are in favor
of KILLING POLITICIANS THEY DON'T LIKE. there is absolutely no way
you can flimflam your way around this basic tenet of the philosophy,
no matter how much you or other proponents snivel about "our rights,
violations, justice, due process" etc.  now it is quite possible you
might be advocating killing politicians other than with guns, perhaps
death by covering them with honey and putting them in anthills. but
get a clue about what you are advocating!! killing politicians you
don't like!!

(above statement is equivalent to: well, I SUPPORT AP, but only insofar
as I don't put my own job at risk. if anyone who employs me THINKS
I support AP, please realize you are mistaken)

> If someone is in government and is
>doing something very wrong (although one may disagree on what is wrong, of
>course), then they're a proper target.

"proper target". another lovely euphemism for "target practice for
submachine guns".

>	If the only workable method of self-defense is to kill the person, then
>that's a justifiable means of self-defense.

of course, that is what AP proponents are asserting. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY
they shout. it's our last result. we have no other choice.

 Hopefully, other means of removal
>of those in government who do what is wrong is possible; I do my best to work
>for this. But if it isn't, I'll support AP as an alternative.

hee, hee. what is your criteria? "if the government doesn't repeal 
taxes tomorrow, we're fully justified on going on a shooting spree
at our local government offices". no? oh, perhaps you require a little
more provocation? perhaps a government cleark has to look at you snidely
when you go to review your driver's license? pray tell, what is the
line? please illuminate my ignorance. you see, I have a hard time telling
when someone ought to be put to death. the AP proponents such as yourself
seem so sure of yourself that I'm quite envious. at times TCM and other
cpunks display as much confidence and I must admit I'm quite embarrassed
not to have such security in my own judgements. can one of the experts
here teach me how to pick out the people in a crowd that deserve
execution? surely there must be some simple trick to it all that others
here are not fully sharing.

[hitler]
>>I used him as an example of the kind of thinking that "murdering your
>>enemies solves all your problems". yes, that was his point of view, and
>>you inform me that you share it? well, congratualations!! hitler
>>doesn't have too many friends and can use all the sympathy he can get.
>
>	All your problems? No. But leaving it out as a possible partial
>solution is irrational.

ah, so you do have admitted sympathies for the "kill thine enemies" approach.
yes, perhaps I was too hasty. killing your opponents has many very
obvious and delectable advantages. I'll have to consider it any future
situations I encounter and decide if it would be a useful approach.

>>AP proponents believe that:
>
>>1. the world is full of people that are part of the problem or part
>>of the solution
>
>>2. I can tell precisely the difference
>
>	No, I don't think that I can tell precisely the difference. But it
>appears possible that I'd make less mistakes than the current government does,
>even considering only the cases in which they do kill people (e.g., shootouts
>with drug dealers et al).

so in other words, if you were in charge of the government, it would
be far better off?

>>3. I'd like to kill those that are part of the problem.
>
>	If that's the only way that works, yes.

ah, but you seem to have exhausted all other solutions. could you inform
me when you are going to actually put into play your ideas on assassination
politics? I want to attempt to gauge the results informally. if government
suddenly becomes less oppressive while various bureacrats begin dropping
like flies, I'll know who to thank!!

>>4. if AP existed, and it appeared there was a way to kill other people
>>without trace, I would go through with it.
>
>	Again, if that's the only way that works, yes.

but that is your own and other AP's exact beliefs. "nothing else works.
we're just going to have to start putting politicians to death for their
crimes against humanity". of course you/they don't use this terminology,
but that's the obvious insinuation to anyone with half a brain. unless
you really DO believe the idiotic propaganda terms you guys use like
SELF DEFENSE JUSTICE RIGHTS FAIR TARGET blah blah blah

>>5. I have a lot of teachers I hated in my childhood too. I think I
>>will go for them next. possibly not before seeing if they beg for mercy.
>
>	I invite you to look at the psychological defense mechanism known as
>projection, preferably along with a trained psychiatrist or clinical
>psychologist in inpatient therapy.

I invite you to consider the meaning of the exhortation, "thou shalt not
kill", and the consequences of defying it.