From: "Jean-Francois Avon" <jf_avon@citenet.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 18:36:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: (Fwd) Re: TCM: mafia as a paradigm for cyberspace
Message-ID: <9605200337.AA02122@cti02.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sorry Vlad Z. Nuri, but this message was intended for Cypherpunks,
to be cc'd to you.

Unfortunately, I wrongly addressed it.

To CPunks: the reply that should have hit CPunks:
============================================================

To:               jf_avon@citenet.net
Subject:          Re: TCM: mafia as a paradigm for cyberspace 
Date sent:        Sun, 19 May 96 19:52:45 -0700
From:             "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com>

there is no ethical basis for killing.
please kindly keep your trash out of my mailbox

I've evaluated all sides of the story, and am
not influenced by corrupt machiavellianism

=============================================================



-------Original Message Follows -------
From:          Self <Single-user mode>
To:            "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com>
Subject:       Re: TCM: mafia as a paradigm for cyberspace
Reply-to:      jf_avon@citenet.net
Date:          Sun, 19 May 1996 01:59:00

On 18 May 96 at 12:43, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:

> maybe talk to Jim Bell some more. perhaps
> eventually you will perfect the method of perpetrating the perfect
> killing!! I really do admire you, because killing people without
> getting caught is surely a great unrecognized art, and one of the
> most unappreciated and misunderstood. something that has only been a
> dream to the blighted wretches prior to our glorious new phases of
> cyberspatial technology, which makes human morality completely
> obsolete.

I think that you are writing way out of context.  

First, wether or not the AP scheme is used for the control of 
government, as Jim Bell pushes it, does not mean that it will not be
implemented for other purposes, such as killing successful businessman
or your neighboor's son who is screwing your wife (noticed that she
smiles all the time since a while? ) .

Second, everybody like Jim Bell who is pushing the AP scheme is doing
so on ethical basis: that the coercion the government imposes on to
the individuals by regulations, and guns backed taxation justifies the
killings.  I have to see yet any cypherpunks who seems to agree with
AP that envision another use than govt control.

Third, you will notice that even Jim Bell discusses issues of 
anonymous transactions and businesses that, if conducted properly,
makes the AP scheme irrelevant.  So, it seems that AP is only a tool
instead of being an end in itself.

Fourth, you lack some basic psychological insight: intrinsic 
murderers do enjoy the knowledge of the details of their actions and
the derived perception of power.  AP prevents that by anonymising
everything: a donator cannot know if he caused the death of somebody
(unless he spends several tens of grands himself, but then, there are
other, more satisfying ways for a power seeker to fullfill his
passions...) .

You seems to oppose the proposed violence entailed by AP but you
positively blank out what everybody who reflected on AP put in the
opposite pan of the balance, i.e. the ethical standards of
contemporary govt actions.

And you'll also note that the anonymity issue generate more interest
from more CPunks because it (hopefully) will acheive the same goal
without any killing.

Until you accept to evaluate both side of the story, your 
recriminations opinions are as evident as the magnetic monopole...

jfa

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