From: "Deranged Mutant" <WlkngOwl@unix.asb.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 06:01:08 +0800
To: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May)
Subject: Re: [Off-Topic]  "Curfews"
Message-ID: <199606011838.OAA21114@unix.asb.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On 31 May 96 at 19:08, Timothy C. May wrote:

> This is off-topic for the list, but I want to share it anyway. It touches
> on issues of increasing police surveillance, and also touches on the issue

Not really too off topic at all, considering the surveillance state 
and GAK relate very much to what we're doing here.

An aside: at the University I used to attend, there were field trips 
to this small museum on the campus by elementary school children, who 
apparently regarded the motion detectors for the automatic doors as 
being cameras which they'd happily wave hello to.  Images of Huxley's 
Brave New World intermingled with Warhol's 15-minutes-of-fame stewed 
up with Orwell here....

> of "age credentials" (in the sense that how else is a cop who stops a young
> person for "curfew violation" to determine if a violation has occurred when
> most 14- and 15-year-olds carry no driver's licenses?)

Since when are we now to carry ID everywhere. And of course the local 
police will (as usual) be selective about who they stop to ask about 
directions.

Also note that a reasonable exception will be for kids to go to work 
or school-related activities (institutional), but nothing 
non-institutional such as a party at a friend's house (drugs or no 
drugs), band practice, etc. etc.

> The "curfew" meme is spreading quickly, with Clinton calling for a federal
> curfew, at least in cities, and Dole trying to outdo him with even more
> draconian curfew laws. Many communities already have them, including San
> Jose, New Orleans, and other large cities. And my own community, Santa Cruz
> County, ironically begins a curfew program on Saturday, tomorrow.

Some communities here in Long Island have them. Others have fought 
them, and I think a couple of attempts were struck down by courts. 
Also a blurb in the local papers about police not wanting the curfew 
here, believing it to be a waste of their time or unnecessary... 
(I'll have to dig the article up; I only rememebr it wasn't 
reassuring.)

[..]
> (Some purists claim that children are exempted from normal constitutional
> protections, such as the right of free association, the right to be free
> from unwarranted searches and seizures, the right of free speech, etc.
> Especially this comes up in debates about rights in public schools (speech,
> locker searches, movements are controlled, etc.). But I think a public

A problem indeed. Children grow up used to the surveillance society 
and don't mind it when they become adults.  Imagine a whole 
generation coming of age being told they are "criminals".  Things 
will be very "interesting" (in the Chinese fortune cookie sense) 
during the next 10-20 years...

> As I said, should such curfews become widespread, children will of course
> need forms of age identification, and this opens yet another door for
> universal I.D. cards. And for "travel papers."

...or they'll stay at home and net surf.  Beware the Four (or six?) 
Horsemen...

Rob.

 
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