From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May)
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:28:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Responding to Pre-dawn Unannounced Ninja Raids
Message-ID: <ae146d300502100482e4@[205.199.118.202]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 2:27 AM 7/19/96, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>Sandy Sandfort wrote:
>>
>> > If you had a metal door, you would have enough time to wake up
>> > and assess the situation.
>>
>> This is good advice though.  Ironically, the only person I know
>> with such a door is an ex-cop.  Who should know better?
>
>That was the essense of my letter. The problem of Tim's approach is that
>he has no time to react to a situation. The intruders will kill him
>faster than he will be able to shoot.

Look, I took this discussion to private e-mail with Igor earlier today,
figuring the rest of you had already gotten my basic point in my main
article and did not need further explanations. However, as Igor is imputing
motives and plans to me, I have to comment.

First, as I explained to Igor in e-mail, my home has _multiple_ (7 or 8)
windows on the ground floor, several (3) sliding glass doors, and a couple
of outside doors. The expense of fortifying each to Igor-recommended,
Ninja-resistant levels would be quite high. (And I have seen houses with
bars on all the windows...not a pretty sight, and not something I moved to
my hill to turn around and imprison myself with. Not only are such bars
ugly, they are expensive. And a potential fire hazard, as several cases
have shown; people have been trapped in burning homes, unable to unlock the
bars.)

Second, and in line with Sandy's comments, I am quite aware--and quite
careful--when visitors or guests are staying in my home. The scenario of my
not realizing a noisemaker is one of my guests is implausible. In any case,
most of the time I have no guests. Those who train with guns understand the
dangers, the risks, and the proper handling of situations.

Third, there are no plausible scenarios for "someone peaceful who
entered your home with good intentions." If someone is in my home,
uninvited and without my knowledge, the law in California and in most other
states says that I am justified in firing. Period. I don't have to read him
his rights, I don't have to ask if his intentions are peaceful, I don't
have to have proof that he plans to shoot me. All I have to have is
reasonable fear that I or my family/guests could be in danger. (The exact
legal wording is something like this, but may be slightly different.) I
know of few if any cases where a prowler was shot in a darkened house--or
even during daylight--and any successful prosecution or lawsuit resulted.

Fourth, the huge increase in "home invasions" in recent years should cause
anyone to stop and ponder self-protection. ("Home invasion" is the practice
of a gang of robbers hitting a house hard and fast, tying up or shooting
the occupants, and then ransacking the place for anything they can carry.
Often the occupants are shot execution-style.) Cops are not likely to be of
much help.

Fifth, when intruders, robbers, wandering drunks, and home invaders think
there is no chance of a homeowner defending himself, crime rates tend to be
high. In communities of the West where large percentages of homeowners have
shotguns and assorted handguns, the crime rate appears to be much lower
than in "disarmed" places back East. (We could argue the statistics on this
til the cows come home, and I don't plan to. Talk.politics.guns is the
place.)

>Also, do not forget that if you sleep at night, your eyes will not be
>used to bright light. Thus, an intruder with a bright flashlight would
>be able to make you almost blind (and yes, you can keep the flashlight
>away from your body).

Your point being? I have no idea if intruders are planning to use
flashlights to blind victims, but I rather doubt it. The nature of the most
common intruder-defender situation is that the intruder typically does not
want to awaken the defender...indeed, he tries to strike when he thinks the
defender is away. (And most cases of intruders killing the defenders is
when the defenders surprise the intruders.) Obviously there are all kinds
of scenarios, but I'm skeptical that flashlights are a useful strategem for
either side to count on. (I am thinking about getting a ultra-bright
flashlight, though.)

>I of course have no idea about Tim's accommodations, but in my apartment
>it takes about one second to break into my door if you have a heavy axe.
>Then three seconds after you break into the door you are in my bedroom and
>can shoot at me. Would a gun under my pillow help? I don't think so.

The good news for we defenders, and this applies to both the gun case and
the hypothesized "flashlight" case is that most intruders are poorly
trained in gun-handling, are armed with fairly wimpy guns (e.g., .38s),
have practiced very little, and rarely carry high-power flashlights (such
as the extremely bright "Sure-Fire" tactical flashlights). Cops are, of
course, another story.

The point being that a citizen who practices at the range, firing at least
500 rounds a year or so at combat-range targets, is usually _much_
better-prepared to win a firefight with a street punk carrying a .38  or
.25 he's never fired before. (Ninjas are another story, of course.)

(However, to a person who is unarmed, a shot from a .38 or a .25, or even a
.22, can result in death.)


>Now if I had a good door, I would have tim to wake up, cock the gun,
>maybe call for help, and so on. Quite a different situation.

Yeah, fine, you've now made your "good door" point several times, here and
in private mail to me. So get a "good door" already! (BTW, my door is a
solid-core heavy door, with Schlage lock and deadbolt, so it ain't wimpy.
Ninjas have special tools to zap even such doors, but, frankly, I'd expect
them to come in through the windows. As I said, I don't plan to spend
thousands of dollars installing Lexan windows and bars, for various
reasons. And windows are almost always the point of entry for burglars, not
crashing through the front door.)


>If you do not believe me, refer to the rec.guns FAQ. It has all
>been discussed there.

Puh-leese! As Perry would say, don't teach Grandpa how to suck eggs. I've
been shooting since 1974 (not counting childhood target practice) and am
pretty well-versed in such things.

>I am not asking Tim to get rid of his gun -- I am merely suggesting
>how to _improve_ security.

Yeah, but you have a one-track mind ("get a good door"). And bringing in
all the nonsense about bad dreams and sleepwalkers and lawsuits by people
strolling through living rooms for "peaceful purposes" (though not invited
by the owner!) and the like...this set of nonsense can only be interpreted
in the context of your thinking that having guns in a house is dangerous.

Do as you wish, Igor. Please, by all means, replace your apartment door
with a heavier one, even a steel-core one. But don't conflate this advice
with nonsense about dreams, sleepwalkers, getting arrested for defending a
home, and suchlike.

--Tim May

Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software!
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed.
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