From: Duncan Frissell <frissell@panix.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 03:06:54 +0800
To: Greg Broiles <mpd@netcom.com (Mike Duvos)
Subject: Re: A Libertine Question
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960731151242.0087632c@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 06:01 AM 7/31/96 -0700, Greg Broiles wrote:
>Which is a long way to say that street cops
>don't usually torment people with nice cars and/or houses, so those folks
>don't need to be so concerned about making sure their "papers" are "in
>order". 

Most demands for ID and conformations with police involve the operation of
motor vehicles.  I have never been "IDed" except at border crossings and
when I was operating motor vehicles.  Clean and dressed up people are rarely
IDed on foot.  Maybe you should mention some of the specific practices in
Seattle that disturb you.

>So the unconstitutional and oppressive character of the various laws
>Mike Duvos refers to is mitigated by their lack of evenhanded enforcement.
>If a cop can demand ID from someone who "looks like he doesn't belong here"
>he can demand it from you. (modulo driving, this isn't legal. But give
>Justice [sic] Rehnquist and Clinton and random congressional maniacs a few
>more years and see where things stand.)

Or flying on a commercial flight.  So far, prosecutions for "failure to
possess ID" have not succeeded.  You *can* be prosecuted for failure to
identify yourself (which is *not* the same thing).  The Philadelphia airport
was allegedly requiring *two* pieces of ID for flights.  If they are talking
about two pieces of photo -- government-issued ID, I wonder where the 80% of
Americans without a Passport (x the 90% of Americans who are not government
employees) get the second piece of ID. [Is it a violation of something if
you Heil Hitler od Sieg Heil the airline clerk when they ask to see your ID.
It's not a threat, it's an expression of honor.]

>with guns or other weapons. And just as some people "don't have a right to
>live in Seattle" if they won't toe the line, other people may find they
>"don't have a right to live in the United States." * 

The Supremes outlawed exile as a punishment in a case during the 1950s.
Said it was cruel and unusual punishment.  Guess it's OK to execute people
but not deprive them of having a government.

DCF

"If the security guard did it in Atlanta, that will be the second US
Olympics in which the only 'terrorist incident' was perpetrated by a
security person.  I guess we should outlaw security at such gatherings to
prevent terrorism."