From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 04:58:13 +0800
To: mpd@netcom.com (Mike Duvos)
Subject: Re: [RANT] Giving Mind Control Drugs to Children
In-Reply-To: <199607090706.AAA03569@netcom14.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199607091535.LAA13709@jekyll.piermont.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mike Duvos writes:
>  > They cease to play incessantly with fidget toys and they get
>  > on with their lives. Maybe you would prefer to "help" them
>  > by not letting them get medication. Maybe its "unnatural".
>  > Could you explain to me, however, how you are making their
>  > lives better by not giving them their meds? I mean, what
>  > concretely is better about their lives?
> 
> If someone has some sort of cognitive disability which can be
> diagnosed and for which treatment with medication is appropriate,
> I have no problem with that.  But vague claims that "Johnny won't
> sit still" hardly constitute such a workup.

You are dodging the point. There are lots of people for whom it is
easily demonstrated that a small dose of Ritalin makes a dramatic
change in their quality of life. The scientific studies are numerous,
and unless you are prepared to tell me what flaws you find in the
studies you have not even examined, I do not see that you have
evidence backing your opinion. Given that there are people who are
demonstrably helped in their lives by Ritalin, could you explain to me
why it is that they should not be taking the medication? Please back
your statement up with documentation published in a refereed journal
or conference paper -- not with Mike Duvos' off the cuff opinion based
on his years as a computer professional.

>  > You miss the point. You spoke of involuntarily medicated
>  > kids. Most of the kids aren't involuntarily medicated.
> 
> Let's see.  At the beginning of this message, you were
> questioning Tim's qualifications to suggest kids were
> overmedicated.  Now you are telling us that the kids are
> qualified to give informed consent to the very same thing.
> 
> Hardly consistant, even for you Perry.

Totally consistant. It is a person's own business, not a third party's
business, to decide what they should be ingesting and when. Tim is
supposedly a libertarian and supposedly opposed to drug laws that
prohibit people from taking what they want when they want, or,
presumably, deciding for their children what they should be
consuming. He also supposedly thinks that people should keep their
nose out of the personal choices made by others, and gets downright
cantakerous when anyone voices the least opinion about how he runs his
life. However, if a family, with the willing consent of their child,
decides to make a choice about how to best watch out for the welfare
of their own child, Tim sanctimoniously chimes in, along with the rest
of the peanut gallery.

I mean, Tim would be offended if anyone told him what to take, but he
feels perfectly happy telling other people how to run THEIR lives.

So, yes, I'm consistant. Its my business, and mine alone, if I shoot
morphine, or take Penicillin, or decide to do none of these
things. I may choose to consult with a doctor about my condition on
the premise that he is a qualified professional and can render me an
educated opinion. Tim's opinion is, however, neither educated nor
wanted. He should mind his own business with the zealous rage he
applies to those who attempt to mind his business.

I'm consistant. Tim, and possibly you, are hypocrites.

> Seriously, though, the really dumb thing in all of this is the
> constant pretending that drugs both do and don't have the ability
> to enhance performance.  We vascilate between "Drugs are never
> the solution" and "Take this pill twice a day with a glass of
> water."  This is a very mixed message indeed.

You don't hear me giving it, do you?

Drugs are wonderful things at times. A dose of morphine a few times a
day can make the difference between unbearable pain and being able to
function. A tablet of common aspirin can utterly change your day from
an experience filled with headache to a productive and happy one. A
dose of any one of several antidepressants can take people who have
repeatedly attempted suicide and at the very least give them enough
time to work out their problems and learn to deal with life.

Of course, drugs can also be damaging. One tablet of Tylenol is not so
bad. 100 destroy your liver. An occassional drink rarely hurts. Being
falling down drunk at all times is unlikely to improve your life.

Drugs are sometimes of use, sometimes not of use. Any use has to be
evaluated by the person contemplating taking the drug. Any mixed
message does not originate from me.

Perry