From: The Deviant <deviant@pooh-corner.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:05:54 +0800
To: David Sternlight <david@sternlight.com>
Subject: Re: WaPo on Crypto-Genie Terrorism
In-Reply-To: <v03007805ae21721e971a@[192.187.162.15]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.94.960728224653.505A-100000@switch.sp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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On Sun, 28 Jul 1996, David Sternlight wrote:

> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 12:59:37 -0700
> From: David Sternlight <david@sternlight.com>
> To: Deranged Mutant <WlkngOwl@unix.asb.com>, John Young <jya@pipeline.com>,
>     cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: WaPo on Crypto-Genie Terrorism
> 
> At 5:55 PM -0700 7/27/96, Deranged Mutant wrote:
> >On 27 Jul 96 at 19:21, John Young wrote:

[stuff skipped]

> 
> This, and similar remarks by others, consistently misses the point which I
> have been making for about a year now, and which Director Freeh finally
> made explicit in his testimony last week. That is--the government is
> concerned with mass market software incorporating robust crypto, used
> overseas, and recognizes that they can't keep niche products off the
> market, nor stop bad guys from using crypto the government would just as
> soon they didn't. Since the US has a hammerlock on that mass market, and
> since few would switch products to let the crypto tail wag the features dog
> (no slur intended), ITAR follows.
> 

Hrmmm... "is concerned" I can understand, but banning it, or what we do
with it, is definatly against the First Amendment.

> 
> Though I've no connection with Freeh, it's interesting that his language is
> almost word for word the same as what I've been using. Do you suppose some
> of his staff reads my stuff?
> 
> Until now we haven't seen such an open public admission of what the
> government is concerned about--probably because the State Department
> doesn't like to have an official spokesman admit we're mass monitoring and
> seining foreign traffic since it is an embarassment to the polite fiction
> of diplomatic relations (though I'm sure the truth is that every country
> with the capability does it).
> 

yes, I'd say that every country that can does... but what does that have
to do with anything?

> 
> >
> >[..]
> >>    with wiretapping. Mr. Freeh, testifying at Thursday's hearing in
> >>    favor of an optional key escrow plan, noted that the point is not
> >>    to prevent all  copies of uncrackable code from going abroad --  that's
> >>    clearly impossible -- but to prevent such high-level code
> >>    from becoming the international standard, with architecture
> >>    and transmission channels all unreadable to world
> >>    authorities. To software companies and Internet users who
> >
> >So why should criminals bother with using standards if they are
> >readable by authorities?
> 
> See above.
> 
> >
> >>    have been clamoring for the right to encrypt as securely as
> >>    possible, Mr. Freeh and others argue, "the genie is not yet
> >>    out of the bottle" on "robust," meaning uncrackable,
> >>    encryption.
> >
> >Are they going to magically erase all copies of strong software that
> >is already currently available? (Side note: the Pacifica news report
> >on Friday notes that while Freeh gave his testimony, over 100 copies
> >of PGP were downloaded from MIT's site.)
> 
> What he's saying is that US-exported copies of the Lotus Lockshens,
> Microsoft Machayas, and Netscape Niguns of the world still do not contain
> robust crypto the USG cannot read.
> 

Which they should, I might add.

> >Particularly absent in the WaPo-ed is that many do not trust the
> >authorities (in the US and elsewhere)--particularly the FBI, which
> >has a long history of extra-legal surveillance.
> 
> So as Netanyahu says at length we need to build in protections against
> abuses, using both the legislature and the judiciary.
> 

Oh, yes oh wise one.  We need protections against free speech.  The First
Amendment was designed to hurt us.  Seig Hiel!

 --Deviant
The first version always gets thrown away.


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