From: "Mark M." <markm@voicenet.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 05:20:44 +0800
To: pjn@nworks.com
Subject: Re: cypherpunks vs hackers
In-Reply-To: <TCPSMTP.16.7.28.12.59.42.2645935021.656889@.nworks.com>
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On Sun, 28 Jul 1996 pjn@nworks.com wrote:

>  It is interesting to note that while both groups have opposite
>  objectives (Hackers want all information free, where cypherpunks want
>  everbody to be able to have privacy), and yet in there own ways, they
>  are both right.

I don't entirely agree with this.  I think both groups want information to be
free, but also want people to be able to have privacy.  Most hackers (used in
the sense of people who break into computers) attack computers owned by such
companies as TRW and the phone companies.  Both of these systems have little
regard for privacy.  Most non-malicious hackers promote system security, but
at the same time, don't like government-controlled monopolies and agencies to
be able to keep secret information that should be free.  A very interesting
paper by Dorothy Denning (she used to be regarded very highly by the hacker
community before she started to support Clipper) expresses some of the
concerns and morals of hackers.  It's called "Concerning Hackers Who Break Into
Computer Systems" and is in Phrack issue 32.

> 
>  I think what we need to define is the diffrence between hackers and
>  crackers. A hacker breaks into a computer like a cracker (but the 
>  similarities end there).  The hacker just want to look and learn, 
>  possably "map out" the system just to see how everything works with
>  everything else.  Crackers break into computers for the sake of 
>  destroying or stealing information or the system itself.

That's debatable.  I think many people incorrectly consider these terms to be
mutually exclusive.  There are many hackers (used in the sense defined in the
Jargon File) who also break into systems and could therefore be considered
crackers also.  Most hackers definitely have the knowledge to break into
computer systems, but many crackers aren't very well versed in programming and
learn how to break into computers by using canned programs and G-files.

> 
>  Both cypherpunks and hackers think that the government is wrong
>  in many things that they do.

Agreed.

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