From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:03:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Digital Watermarks for copy protection in recent Billbo
Message-ID: <ae1bbff80e0210045f8c@[205.199.118.202]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 12:54 PM 7/24/96, Alex F wrote:
>> >Yes, but concievably if (whoever would be incharge, FBI?) *could*,
>> >under law do this, even if they are wrong.  It is a lot harder to
>> >prove that they intentionally harrassed *you* than it is for them to
>> >say that they were following leads and show evidence.  Yes, this may
>>
>> To go to trial, an indictment would be needed. How likely is this?
>
>The likelyness is irrelevant to the point.  Possibility is relevant.
>Probability is not.

"Likeliness" is _always_ relevent when discussing law.

I am not a lawyer, but I've virtually certain that "receiving stolen
property" laws involve terms like "knowingly" and/or "conspiracy." That is,
"scienter."

While "ignorance of the law is no excuse" is certainly true in many cases,
the law comprehends the reality that certain actions are not crimes if no
knowledge of a criminal act was involved. (Sorry if this is not phrased
more clearly.)

Thus, the guy who buys a bicycle that later turns out to have been stolen,
will usually lose the bicycle, but is not knowingly receiving stolen
property and hence is guilty of no crime. And no DA will charge him; the
courts and jails are already clogged up enough. Of course, if he _knew_ the
bicycle was stolen (e.g., he "placed an order" to have one stolen, a market
which actually exists in some places, usually for cars), then "scienter"
has been met, and perhaps "conspiracy," and so prosecution is more likely.

I maintain that this "wiggle factor" in the law is not something to get
worried about ("But they _could_ arrest me for buying a book stolen 10
years ago! We've got to do something!) and is, in fact, essential in any
justice system. There just is no "automated" or "formal" system, and
probably/hopefully never will be.

--Tim May



Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software!
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
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