From: Cerridwyn Llewyellyn <ceridwyn@wolfenet.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:16:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: A Libertine Question
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960801053838.006a2bb4@gonzo.wolfenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Most demands for ID and conformations with police involve the operation of
>motor vehicles.  I have never been "IDed" except at border crossings and
>when I was operating motor vehicles.  Clean and dressed up people are rarely
>IDed on foot.  Maybe you should mention some of the specific practices in
>Seattle that disturb you.

I was downtown Seattle at night time (early morning), walking around, minding 
my own business. Probably not actively maintaining public decorum, but
certainly 
not doing anything unorderly.  A cop approached me and asked what I was doing,
I told him none of his business.  He asked me for my ID, I said why, am I under
arrest?  He said no, but he needs to see my ID.  I told him he has no right to
ask me for my ID, especially when I've been doing nothing wrong, if I wanted to 
live in those conditions, I'd move to Iraq or China or something.  I got out my 
handy pocket tape recorder, and asked him to state his name and repeat his
request 
for the benefit of my lawyer who'd be contacting him. At this point the few
other 
people on the street had sort of gathered a few yards away, and the cop decided
he wasn't gonna win this one, so asked me to return to my home and left before
I could respond.  You are right, "Clean and dressed up people are rarely IDed 
[read harassed] on foot."  I'm not concerned for the clean and dressed up
people 
(with regards to police abuse), I'm concerned about the majority of people who 
aren't.  (For the record, I'm generally clean, but *rarely* dressed up. =) )  

>Or flying on a commercial flight.  So far, prosecutions for "failure to
>possess ID" have not succeeded.  You *can* be prosecuted for failure to
>identify yourself (which is *not* the same thing).  The Philadelphia airport
>was allegedly requiring *two* pieces of ID for flights.  If they are talking
>about two pieces of photo -- government-issued ID, I wonder where the 80% of
>Americans without a Passport (x the 90% of Americans who are not government
>employees) get the second piece of ID. [Is it a violation of something if
>you Heil Hitler od Sieg Heil the airline clerk when they ask to see your ID.
>It's not a threat, it's an expression of honor.]

When I flew from Philadelphia about a year ago, they required one picture ID
and one other ID, just like most stores when you want a check cashed.  I still
don't like it, but I have less of a problem presenting ID when I am seeking
a service of some kind.  It is unacceptable to be asked for ID when I am merely
walking around a public street.