From: Jim Choate <ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 12:49:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: "adjust your attitude with their billy club" (fwd)
Message-ID: <199608030251.VAA11455@einstein>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:48:45 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Alan Horowitz <alanh@infi.net>
> Subject: Re: "adjust your attitude with their billy club" (fwd)
> 
> <<  9th & 10th AMendments to the Conmstitution >>
> 
> Cute, you left out the Third.


			       ARTICLE III. 
 
	No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any home 
without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to 
be prescribed by law. 
 
I didn't include it because it isn't germane to the discussion at hand.
 
> We are referring to the Sovereign power of the State of Washington to 
> allocate to the municipality of Seattle, a general Police Power to 
> maintain the Peace.  Every lawyer seems to think that Seattle has the 
> power to forbid people from using sidewalks as latrines and kitchen sinks.

I agree with the municipality, if you want to eat your own shit and piss go
right ahead. You have no right to expose me to the deliterious health effects
of such material randomly sprayed around my city. Hell, even animals are smart
enough to know not to shit in their own bed. Pitty all these smart people seem
to have forgotten such a basic rule of nature. Such actions are clearly a
threat to my person and property.

> I am in bed with the government, so I have better knowledge than most of 
> the people on this list, about how bad it is. Nonetheless, I recall the 
> aphorism from the Talmud: "Pray for the health of the government, lest 
> the people eat other alive".

If these sayings indicate such insight how come the Jews have such a
terrible time getting along with anyone for any length of time? Why does
their current regime have such a hard time? Why is it that I get such a
rising in the hackles on my neck when I am reminded that it is illegal in
Isreal to carry a Palestinian flag in public. How come they begin to look
more and more like the new age nazi's? The Isrealis love of government and
structure has certainly not brought them great amounts of security, wealth,
or friends.

> If you want to walk into the public library after a six-month moratorium 
> on bathing - well, the courts are divided on this, but _I_ stand for the 
> proposition that this is an assault on the other patrons and I will lobby 
> _my_ city councilman for there to be rules against it.

I will oppose it. While I would oppose those self same persons from touching
me or my property without my prior permission (which I would not give) I
would not prohibit them from entering any public facility. I oppose Austin's
recent ruling prohibiting sleeping in public parks and other area because
the local businesses said it effected their profits. I oppose their recent
ruling that ALL persons who ride a bike MUST wear a helmet, ostensibly to
protect children even though the law doesn't mention minors at any point.
The mayor when queeried on this point simply ignored it. I assure you none
of them will get my vote, and from what I have seen not a lot of others
either.

> But if you want to play your boombox loud near me, make damn sure you do
> it behind soundproof walls. Where I live, the cops will respond to that 
> kind of complaint and shut down the nuisance, with nightsticks if need be 
> (in my little rural area, it's seldom necessary). Maybe you California or 
> NYC folks don't have police forces that will mitigate nuisances. Enjoy 
> your progressive radical-chic neighborhood, folks.

Unless you can demonstrate that your person or property are harmed by the
action I oppose such laws. Simply smelling bad is not a physical act. Austin
has a law which basicaly does the same thing. In general the people of the
city don't like it, the police don't enforce it, and the people drive around
town jammin' to their hearts content. If my apartment neighbor is playing
their radio too loud I am not going to call the cops I am going to call the
manager if my attempts at becoming some sort of aquaintence fail at mediation.
It is private property and short of violence to a person or property they
have no business in here without a warrant. I own 5 acres near Lockhart, just
outside Austin, and I have made it clear to several of the county mounties
that parking in my driveway is verbotten if they don't have a warrant for
searching my property, they liked to park there to eat food and fill out
reports. They seem to understand and respect my wishes. They now park down
at the intersection of my dirt road and 71 on public land.

The right to freedom of speech means you have a right to be offended and to
offend. If you haven't been offended at least once a day you need to get out
of your apartment and quit watching the roaches crawl the walls. If what is
on television offends you then start your own television station and play
family (or porno) material till your hearts content. Passing laws that tell
privately owned stations what to air is wrong because it is equivalent to
limiting the freedom of speech and press. This can be extended to all such
prior restraint laws. To regulate content based on the public airwaves model
is equivalent to the state telling me what station to listen to on my car
radio because I am on a public road.

When I was a small child I learned an important lesson the hard way. I was
smaller than the other kids so they would call me names and pick on me to no
end. Did I fight with them? No, I recognized even at that young age that
violence would not stop the actions, only change their nature. Violence as a
means of coersion is a signal of a small mind. On the other hand, I only lost
a single fight in the 1st grade. This taught me that if one is attacked in a
physical sense respond with all the force and violence you can muster, show
no mercy until the beggar is on the ground and in a sorry state. Don't stop
if they say they surrender, they may be saying it to gain a tactical
advantage. Stop only when you are certain they no longer have the will or
means to carry the fight further. It would be a great thing if our
government and society in general would learn this lesson regarding violence.
We would live in a much less violent world.

                                                      Jim Choate