From: attila <attila@primenet.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:35:02 +0800
To: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Blissful? Ignorance (was SCO giving free licenses to UNIX OpenServer)
Message-ID: <199609031629.KAA02275@InfoWest.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 
** Reply to note from Hallam-Baker <hallam@ai.mit.edu> 09/02/96  5:15pm   
-0400  
  
    --or another Hallum-Baker ignorant rant v. unix, bsd, etc. 
  
= Eric Murray wrote:  
= >   
= > Scottauge@aol.com writes:  
=   
= > > Read, Understand, and Delight... Microsoft maybe in trouble at   
last.  
= >   
= > I doubt it.  People don't use Microsoft products because  
= > of their quality or functionality.  
=   
= Errmm.. hate to disappoint but SCO UNIX started life as Xenix which  
= was written by Microsoft in the dark ages.   
=   
=   
        the **original** SCO product and versions up to   
    3.something **were** xenix --not written by MS, but simple 
    unix V7 which was capable of 64K program and 64K data and 
    would run on a 286. 
 
        MS had a substantial investment in SCO when the old man 
    was screwing things up (before the old man was forced out 
    for sexual harassment --his brother had long since raped  
    Convergent and was gated). 
 
        MS had made the V7 deal with Western Electric with Billy  
    thinking he had an exclusive on **the** way to go --better  
    than sliced bread; V7 was not commercially available --only to    
    universities because of a WE consent decree with the government.   
    Billy was in seventh heaven --sure he had the deal of a lifetime! 
 
        not so: Bell Labs shortly announced the breakup and  
    decided to commercially ship System III --it was available 
    in source code only, but the price was only about $25K in  
    the first go around, and you could produce binaries for 
    sublicensing for $250 or some such --it was not a great 
    price, but it was doable.  System III was not restricted to 
    64K plus 64K.   
 
        One of my major conract customers at the time was WE  
    --System V R2 was already available internally, including a  
    decent VAX port (unlike the really piss-poor V32 Berkeley  
    rewrote into BSD 4.2 --offering it back to Bell Labs for  
    free, which was spurned from the Ivory Tower at Murrey Hill...) 
 
        With the WE and AT&T breakup, and the multiple licensing  
    activity, Gates hit the roof --threw several well known major  
    temper tantrums, including at least one at WE/Labs that I am 
    directly aware of.  Gates vowed to bury UNIX in all flavours 
    and has had that intention ever since  --non-stop.   
 
        Billy-boy does not carry a grudge lightly --he not only 
    gets very mad and comes off the wall (or handle), but he has 
    every intention of getting even.  I've always figured Billy  
    suffers from Tourette's for his mannerisms, his  
    uncontrollable rage, &c. --just has not learned to manage it, 
    and figured his Daddy could solve it all --and now there is  
    an item of $10billion give or take a few --buys a lot of hate. 
 
        part of Billy's vindictive plan against AT&T involved 
    hiring Dave Cutler from DEC --Cutler was the self-styled 
    leader of the VMS team, also with a bad case of temper-tantrums 
 
        I saw dave literally shatter an impossible to break WE  
    500 series telephone simply by "hanging" it up....   (...time 
    to clear the decks!)  and that was for NT --great job!  Cutler 
    took the deal thinking he had a free hand --at Billy's place? 
    --naive. and Dave had to put up with the Windows legacy...   
    the crap that goes on inside NT is not all Cutler's direct fault. 
 
        and that is Billy Boy and the SCO club...  and death  
    lurking in the alley for unix --but I doubt he will be able  
    to kill it --there is just too large a crowd of  
    professionals who refuse to use MS --not just because the  
    product is crap, but because of Billy. 
  
  
= > > This is for single user home based UNIX systems.  
= >   
= > Single-user UNIX isn't all that useful.  
=   
        matter of opinion --works fine,  
 
        just like the big guys, on a workstation.  so it limits  
    you to one login  -???  runs full multi-tasking re-entrant  
    just like multi-user. somewhere along the line, you were  
    standing behind the door and forgot to listen when single  
    user limitations were defined. 
 
= Listen to the guys who built it. UNIX  
= is a program development environment.  
= 
        that's so ludicrous, it's funny.   you figure everyone  
    just sat around playing with themselves? 
 
	I wouldn't tell that to Thompson, Ritchie, Kerrigan and 
    friends...   unix was a **tool**. 
 
= In the early years it was  
= interesting because there was source available, that ceased to be  
= the case years ago.  
= 
        and AT&T source has always been available at some price. 
  
        BSD source from 4.2 through the current (and last) 4.4 is 
    freely available,  
 
        give Walnut Creek $29,00 and you have it all and pay the 
    shipping from  Free Software Foundation (GNU) and you have 
    all that too (most of which is on the freeBsd and Linux 
    CDROMs anyway. 
 
= Multi-user ain't much better. Listen to the guys who built it.   
 
        apparently you never figured out there was anything after 
    SCO's initial releases --they were junk as was their first  
    several passes at System III and V  -they tried to live with  
    their Xenix Heritage --including trying to make System III  
    run on a 286 --an abysmal product. 
 
        today SCO is shipping SysV R4+ --the last Labs and Unix  
    International version which also contains all BSD calls which 
    were added by SUN under contract --it's a good solid product. 
 
        however, despite years of kernal hacking for WE, I still  
    prefer straight BSD flavours.  Commercially, SUN leads that  
    pack, followed by DEC with Ultrix which is BSD by another  
    name...  HP is sort of System V R4+  Even IBM is Unix --they  
    just call it AIX and it is BSD based --also very solid and  
    thoroughly supported --you can not even get IBM heavy iron  
    without AIX --MVS &c. run as processes. 
 
        Ken Olsen, founder of DEC, called unix "snake oil."  
    DEC's VMS is good, but was originally a DCL platform.  
    security is excellent by comparison to early unix, but it is 
    not open (or was not, to be correct)  --and source is 
    virtually out of the question. 
 
        FYI, both unix and VMS are derived from Multix... 
 
        Today DEC ships Ultrix on everything, and VMS  
    basically only on the mainframes.  Ken Olsen was forced out  
    when the sales staff blew Ford Motor Co out of the water on  
    an immense deal, along with an even larger Fed contract  
    --essentially the salesmen refused to sell unix (required  
    in both bid specs) on the hardware....  DEC started sliding,  
    and Ken was "retired." 
  
= Today Linux probably represents the future of the UNIX family, it  
= allows people who want to hack at the OS level access to the sources  
= of a fully functioning OS. This allows people to add in new kernel  
= features, schedulers and other exotica without having to write a  
= whole new O/S.  
=  
        the only reasons NT will end up in big business is  
    a) politics, b) freebies, and c) intimidation. MIS staffs  
    will not choose it, MSNBC just canned NT 4.0 as worthless  
    junk. 
 
        Linux has a large base, but it is a warmed over version  
    of Bell System V --rewritten supposedly from scratch by a  
    husband/wife team (I might have believed it had it been the  
    husband/wife team of Peter Conklin who was also on the DEC  
    VMS gig from the gate  --I gave him his first job out of  
    Harvard in 1962  --arrogant, but 100%. 
  
= Just don't confuse it with "home computing", this is geek computing  
= and you better have a lot of interest in computing to use it.  
= 
        that's pure bullshit, again. 
         
        actually, FreeBSD is easier to handle than Linux and more 
    professionally supported --including ongoing active 
    development,  It qualifies as home computing in my book --you 
    take the CD, copy two disks out to kick it off, and say GO. 
 
        comes up in X windows... 
 
        geek code?  get off your MicroSlop mentality limitation. 
 
= Home  
= computing is the market for users who need a system that's simpler  
= than a VCR or they can't use it.  
= 
        that's total nonsense, your British class system is  
    showing its ignorant face again  -you are insulting what  
    little intelligence the American middle class does have... 
 
        unless you really wish to limit the users to TV  
    set-top boxes which can "surf" a few canned sites from  
    assholes-on-line, etc.   
 
        the children of the household will never settle for that! 
 
= At one time that meant Apple, today  
= it means Microsoft, it will never mean Linux - not unless someone  
= can make Linux much much simpler than it is at present and provide  
= decent WISIWIG tools such as editors etc. designed for use by aunt  
= Ethel.  
= 
        give me a break!  your igonance is showing --it's plain and  
    simple an MS advertising jugernaut! 
 
        both linux and freebsd have X built in --FreeBSD actually 
    goes directly to X at bootup --and there are plenty of 
    tools,editors, etc in X  --and freeBSD runs Linux binaries.  
    and there are a number of high grade packages which are fully 
    supported.   
 
        Secondly, SUN binaries for X86 are no more expensive than 
    MS is heading for with NT which they will use to "replace"  
    W95 (W95 was just another MicroSlop holding pattern). 
 
        just a simple fact: MicroSlop advertising buries 
    anything and everything.  and, if that does not work: 
 
        Intimidation is just another form of Communication 
 
    and Billy's real good at, witness the DOJ and FTC round 2  
    unfolding now. 
 
        apparently your schooling is limited to MS courses.... 
 
        MS is a pure virus on its own, if not the software, than  
    certainly the company. 
 
        why does MS have 85% of the desktop? --the power of money 
    and lies --and a loud noisy parade with a bandwagon, free 
    beer, and all that good stuff that goes with predatory market 
    practices. 
 
        fair competition?  why should MS be fair when its stated  
    goal is to take a fraction of **every** transaction on any  
    network.  Billy has no tolerance for the existence of  
    anything other than Billy's creations and control --total 
    control. 
 
        It does not matter if W95 crashes more often than 3.1 
    --upgrade it for more money!  Money is the name of the game  
    at MS, not decent product for a reasonable price. 
 
        Always has been, always will.... 


        --attila


--
Now, with a black jack mule you wish to harness, you walk up,
look him in the eye, and hit him with a 2X4 over the left eye.  
If he blinks, hit him over the right eye! He'll cooperate 
    --so will politicians.