From: attila <attila@primenet.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 14:25:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Public Schools
In-Reply-To: <199609290153.UAA00354@smoke.suba.com>
Message-ID: <199609290418.WAA23501@infowest.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In <199609290153.UAA00354@smoke.suba.com>, on 09/28/96
   at 08:53 PM, snow <snow@smoke.suba.com> said:


A person going by the name Attila said:


>      There is a solution. Trade Schools,

>      The problem was simple:  we have only the now retiring

>toolmakers who make it all possible.  engineering graduates will not

>not observe the manufacturing floors since it is above their

>dignity to roll of their sleeves.


     I knew too many engineering students to believe this. I knew one (Civil

Engineering) who had been a Paramedic, he wanted grease and dirt on his

hands, it may be harder to wash off, but much easier to sleep off.


        he's the exception, not the rule.  I paid my way through
    Harvard as a tool and die maker --if the engineers had to make
    some of the crap they designed, they would design them that way
    again.


>    if engineers were required to serve internships in the shops,

>as doctors are required to intern in a hospital (and the really good

>ones, the top of the class, choose what I call meat-wagon wards

>(large city ER and trauma units), the U.S. would be a far healthier

>and competitive environment.


     No argument there.


>         I know, why the meat wagon wards with their pressure and

>unreasonable hours?    experience, anything and everything comes

>through those doors every night, and it goes off the scale on the

>weekends...


     Hell, that desciribes the ER I used to work in, and it was in a

college town. (Yes, I do have a sorted job history. Everything from  a strip

joint dj. to working as a designer for a Big 7 Accounting firm).


> 
It would also seem to

> 
follow that if parents were spending their own money (or

> 
perceived it as their own money) that they would take a greater

> ânterest in their childrens education.

> =.

>         ...if they were smart enough to start about age 3.  the


     Better late than never.

            unfortunately, the conservative child care people believe
    the pattern may be irretrievably set by the age is six.  you need
    to start with the child from the gate with the nuture --reduces
    fear of abandonment, &c. and encourage trust so they will go to
    others without a tantrum, &c.

            President Hillary, of course, believes in *her* global
    village with *her* central government dictating for all
    --community raising a generation of raison heads!  --from day 1!


>     themselves after dark.  (I do admit that one good scream would

>have an extremely well-armed about to be posse out the door in 15

>seconds or less...  --and, I doubt there would be prisoners!)

        you want a concealed weapon permit? --just go register.


     In my neighborhood, screams are so common (mostly from kids playing,

and yes, I do check as often as I can) that most people don't bother to

check.


        a scream of terror is a different scream.  besides, we have 6
    families in our 8-10 acre section --33 kids between us.  and our
    air raid siren would be howling like an inbound kamikaze.


Very different worlds. My wife and I are probably the only ones who

_don't_ watch TV. We have 2, plus 5 computers, and 5 or 6 book shelves. The

TV's were free, so were 2 of the computers.

        we're light on computers at the moment --only 3, and I need 3
    more.    bookshelves?  30 feet, floor to ceiling, packed. trying
    save enough to get one of the 7 CD rom up in parallel deals for
    the 8G freeBSD fileserver --OS/2 (merlin) workstations. stuff is
    expensive, even when you buy right.

        well, out here, probably 20% of the families did not have a
    TV;  I gave the "message" one Sunday a couple months ago and
    the percentage has gone up.  those who did have TVs have them
    severely restricted for content --there are no R movies
    tolerated --and most do not bring in a commercial signal --VCRs.

        the population base is changing with an influx of non-Mormons
    in town, so R rated are showing up at the theatres and video
    rentals in town.

        the police visible prescence is effective --a force of 50+ for
    a population base < 25,000, plus the county sherrif cars and the
    state police.   Curfew is 10pm weekdays for minors --and they
    enforce it, big time.  midnight Fri/Sat.


>         a very unusual situation  --but I live in rural southern utah

>where the regional middle school of 1200 can support 4 bands,

>

>and, where an average ward (100-150 families) will have at

>least a dozen Eagle scouts.

>         proves your point, I guess...

        ...idle hands are the devil's workshop. you want good solid
    kids, you start from the gate and keep 'em busy: home, neighbors,
    school, church, etc.

            yes, you work hard for it --every day.  I have 5, and it
    can be a real task with internecine warfare and all that good
    stuff.   It starts at home and goes the route.  there is no dead
    time on a streetcorner, or at friends house without a parent home.

            they do not date until they are 16 --in groups.  boys and
    girls --the same rules.


     Prove? I don't know, but it is some pretty solid evidense.

Communism at it's finest. A community of people who work

together and take care of  each other voluntarily for the common

good. <hee hee>

        good thing you added the <hee hee>

            --half redneck republicans
            --half further right

        clinton, let alone communism, is a fighting word....

        conspiracy theory is live and well.  as far as anyone around
    here is concerned, Waco and Ruby Ridge were to establish a
    need for gun control, militia bans, privacy abridgements, CDA,
    crypto bans, &c.  opinion on the government in the midst of OKC
    and TWA is moving into the positive range --and there is
    absolutely no doubt of Bubba's cocaine habit or the stink of
    Mena airport.

        BTW, the education level is way above the national average;
    not very many dummies out here.  we do have an advantage: BYU is
    $3K/semester for LDS members, and you need 3.7 to 4.0 to get in.

        schools  --if YOU don't support them, you and we don't have
    them!

--
  "God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. . . .
    What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not
    warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of
    resistance?. . .The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to
    time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
        --Thomas Jefferson, regarding anarchy.