From: "Jean-Francois Avon" <jf_avon@citenet.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:59:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: is there no end to Murder Politics & Creative Wiretap
Message-ID: <9610200233.AB17514@cti02.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 19 Oct 96 at 15:08, jim bell wrote:

> >At 02:14 PM 10/19/96 -0400, hallam@ai.mit.edu wrote:

> >>Murder Politics (lets give your psychopathic scheme an acurate name)

to assasinate = to commit murder : the previous term was accurate...
Why nitpick?

> >>will never be functional. If anonymous cash implied muder politics then
> >>society would be right to reject anonymous cash.

The thing is, *how* exactly are you gonna prevent the advent of e-cash?  The 
same mechanisms that will make a group try to prevent it's apparition will work 
for groups that try to promote it.  Prostitution was virtually always 
repressed.  But was it ever eradicated?  Only, the odds are immensely stacked 
in favour of AP as long as *any* kind of e-$ exists.  Doesn't even have to be 
denominated in dollar, donations could very well be made in ounces of gold...


> >>It is easily done
> >>since money only has value so long as it is convertable. 
> >>
> >>Not only are rights dependent on a social infrastructure that
> >>guarantees that they will be respected but currency is as well.
> >>Without the social and political infrastructure of the US 
> >>government a dollar bill has only the value of the paper its 
> >>printed on. An electronic balance has zero value. 

Well, let's get into that passionnate topic... Many peoples pretend that theses 
pieces of paper are worth nothing *right now*.

But what about gold e-bonds?  You don't like gold? OK, what about a composite 
of precious metals, patented antibiotics, some choosen chemicals, some choosen stock, 
etc, all of them *privately owned* by the issuing bank?

:-) ROTFL!

> >>If you want to live in a society where the political system has been
> >>"reformed" through murder of inconvenient politicians then go and
> >>live in Columbia. Its the nearest thing you will find on the planet
> >>to libertopia.
> >
> >No, not nearly enough politicians have been killed in Columbia to result in a
> >society that could best be described as an "anarchy."

While some peoples want anarchy, I jsut want peaceful living...

The example of Columbia is completely out of context.  Some dictators were 
replaced by other dictators, both being different sides of the same coin.

In Columbia, any member of the gang of drug cartels could be identified and
get targeted by peaceful citizens the same way they would target politicians. 
AP would thus stop street terror.  AP is not against govt per se, it is
something acting against any opressing "leadership", whomever it might be.  

Jim Bell's conviction being that the human animal is basically a reasonnable
animal that enjoys life, AP, IHHO, will bring a world in which the golden rule
will be "live and let live (or die).... or get killed".  

Here, "live and let live (or die)" is opposed to "live and make die (or live)" 
The operative is *let* versus what we currently have now: "make"

Jim Bell, as it is evident by his writings, believe that the word "freedom"
means "to be free from other men".  In that sense, an I think that I am quoting 
him, he claims that anarchy is not "the lack of order" but rather the "lack of 
orders".

jfa
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