From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:32:01 +0800
To: Deana Holmes <mirele@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Utah as a Religious Police State [RANT]
In-Reply-To: <199610021832.MAA17915@mail.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <3254976E.7F3@gte.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Deana Holmes wrote:
> On  2 Oct 96 at 8:47, John C. Randolph wrote:
> > Moroni says:
> > >I never cease to be surprised by the interest that gentiles show
> > >in working mormon communities while totally neglecting their own
> > >failing areas.

> > I don't do a lot of nit-picking on this mailing list, but:
> > I am a Jew. *You* are a gentile. So are all the rest of the mormons.
> > Get this point straight.

> Uh, in Utah, Jews are Gentiles. No lie.

I hope I can add something useful to this:

There are quite a few religious groups which claim Zionist spinoff 
beliefs.  Rastafarians (spelling OK?), Mormons, Jews, Christians, and 
probably a host of others.  Some of these groups specifically exclude 
others who make similar claims.  There is good evidence that the Jews, 
to name one example, did not originally (whenever that was) make claim 
to being a Chosen People, etc., but added it later.  Certainly Mormons 
and other Christians "added it later", no question about that.

St. Paul in the Christian "new testament" makes it quite clear that, at 
least from his time onward, the value of being a Jew is in the spirit, 
not in the flesh.  Deep stuff, indeed.

Then there's the question of how one obtains the "right to exist" as an 
ethnic identity, hopefully without having to exterminate someone else.
I for one was raised in a very conservative Christian culture, and we 
were taught that God "gave" Canaan (later Israel) to the Israelis, when 
it was already occupied.  Refer to Dick Gregory's comments about 
Columbus "discovering" America, and how he should be able to go downtown 
and "discover" himself a Cadillac.

BTW, in a review of HP products I once read (they made the first 
personal computers, circa 1966 I believe), it said that HP people, in 
their main plants in Corvallis OR and Ft. Collins CO, had a really great 
"work ethic", and that they were almost all Mormons and "born again" 
Christians.  That probably says more about homogenous culture than about 
any particular culture, I would guess.

Bottom line for me is, I sincerely appreciate a lot of the good values 
some of these religions bring to their followers, but let's be serious, 
if any of these groups get too much power, look the *hell* out!

P.S.  I cringe every time I hear one of the CNN bozos pronounce Israel
      as in real estate, or get real.  I think they all have to attend
      the Rick Dees school of broadcasting, so it's a standard, like
      GAK or something is going to be the standard.