From: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 16:24:34 -0800 (PST)
To: Steve Edwards <cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Sex, drugs, and libertarianism
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961029215453.0069cc98@pop3.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <v03007801ae9c5d93edd5@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 3:54 PM -0600 10/29/96, Steve Edwards wrote:
>This isn't about crypto but since cypherpunks is the most interesting
>libertarian forum I know, I thought I'd throw it out.
...
>It has been said many times in this forum that prostitution and drugs are
>victimless crimes.  Is this really so?  Although I am generally in concert
>with libertarian views, I would say that the young lady I talked to was
>definitely a victim.  Also, if we are a society, rather than fortress-like
>individuals, we should be concerned with the inevitable spread of disease
>and insanity that is the result of "victimless" crimes.

"Victimless" in the sense that the effect is on that of the perpetrator of
whatever act is involved. (Stealing money to pay for a drug is of course a
different issue; libertarians believe the illegal status of drugs accounts
for much of the crime connected with drugs, of course, but this is,
strictly speaking, a fully separable issue from the act of consuming drugs
per se.)

While it is true that some drugs may have some bad effects, this is true of
a vast number of behaviors: drinking too much alcohol, smoking too much,
watching too much t.v., hangliding, playing Russian roulette, rock
climbing, gambling, and even horseback riding. (As Christopher Reeve, the
millionaire superman, now lobbying for cripple's rights and demanding that
the government "do something" about spinal cord injuries...the dumbass
jumps horses as a hobby, has an accident, and is demanding that "the
spinally-challenged" and "persons of alternate locomotion" be treated as
_victims_ of some nebulous conspiracy! I say do to this dipshit what was
done to his horse.)

Back to "victims." If "victim" is defined to be "a person hurt by some
behavior," then of course there are many tens of millions of "victims." But
most of us don't use this as a definition.

As with rock climbing, stunt plane flying, boozing, and having unprotected
sex, many bahaviors have a high probability of creating problems down the
road. One view is just "think of it as evolution in action." Or, "we all
die...big deal." Or, "people have to take responsibility for their own
actions."

The dramatically different view is, in contrast, "we need to outlaw
potentially dangerous activities." Thus, ban smoking, outlaw hangliding,
ban horseback riding. (Or force the taxpayers to pay for all care for these
"victims.")

In short, the young woman (I assume she's young...) who is offering certain
services for $2 apparently made her choices. It just as well could've been
alcohol (plenty of toothless rummies out there doing what they can to cadge
a drink). We tried Prohibition.

Now we've been trying Prohibition II for the past several decades, with a
major intensification (the Tet Offensive?) the last decade or so. It ain't
working, either. No surprise.

I urge people to think carefully about issues of morality, ethics, free
will, and the type of society we wish to have. People make choices every
day. To use or not to use drugs is just another choice.

--Tim May

"The government announcement is disastrous," said Jim Bidzos,.."We warned IBM
that the National Security Agency would try to twist their technology."
[NYT, 1996-10-02]
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."