From: Clay Olbon II <olbon@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 10:08:42 -0800 (PST)
To: jbugden@smtplink.alis.ca
Subject: RE: IQ and age
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961128180712.006ec3ec@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 12:40 PM 11/28/96 EST, jbugden@smtplink.alis.ca wrote:
>Clay Olbon II <olbon@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>Seriously, you ignore the correlation between performance in college and
>standardized test scores.  There is a reason these are used in admissions -
they
>are actually pretty good predictors of the ability to perform college level
>work. <
> 
>This is a commonly held fiction that is not supported by the evidence. As
stated
>in another message, the infomration given out by ETS, who administer the GMAT
>and SAT, indicate that there is a low correlation between GMAT scores and
>successful completion of even first year education programs. This also ignores
>the issue of why other, better, widely available predictors are not used
>instead.

Apples and oranges.  I was referring to the correlation of college GPA to
SAT scores (which is higher than the correlation between high school GPA and
college GPA).  GPA measures the ability to do college-level work.  As such,
SAT scores are very relevant.  As you said, <completion> of college probably
does involve lots of other factors. I would not expect a high correlation
between standardized test scores and completion rates.

> 
>>Oh, I forgot.  Only certain racial/ethnic groups are capable of understanding
>basic mathematical concepts. <
> 
>There was a good Scientific American article on cultural influences on learning
>within the last year or two. It examined Asian groups noted achievements in
>tests and the parental and cultural support for scholastic achievement.

My point exactly.  It is these cultural factors, not the amount of money the
parents make, that is really the important aspect.  It does seem unfortunate
however that in many lower income families, there is less of an emphasis on
scholastic achievement.  

>Another anecdotal example is in the opening chapters of "Surely You're Joking,
>Mr. Feynman" by Richard Feynman, the late Caltech professor and general bon
>vivant. He describes how his mother introduced a doctor, a general and a
>professor with the same respectful tones indicating to him that a career in
>academia was as highly valued as any other high position in society.
> 
>>I happen to feel better believing in the potential for any individual in this
>country to succeed through hard work. <
> 
>I do to. But how good are your feelings as predictors of actual success?

Anecdotal evidence, but I have known people at many levels of society.  I
have never met anyone who "works hard" that is in dire straits.  Some have
struggled for a time (I know I did!), but eventually the hard work paid off.

        Clay