From: Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:04:49 -0800 (PST)
To: Dave Hayes <dave@kachina.jetcafe.org>
Subject: Re: "Freedom Knights" are closet censors
In-Reply-To: <199611140652.WAA18702@kachina.jetcafe.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.961114070057.11045F-100000@well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


What is "censoring other people's censorship?" Say I argue in favor of the
CDA. Would you censor me then? Why not? Isn't this censoring others
censorship?

I wonder why the so-called "Freedom Knights" are so insecure in their
beliefs that they will not tolerate a dissenting voice on their mailing 
list. (Let's forget for the moment that my point in subscribing was to
disrupt it. That's not the point, is it? "More speech, more speech!")

-Declan
Founder, Boycott Freedom Knights society, Washington, DC chapter


On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Dave Hayes wrote:

> > The so-called "Freedom Knights" have censored me from their mailing list.
> > Dave Hayes refuses to let me subscribe and read and contribute to the
> > discussions there. Why? Simply because he doesn't like what I have to say.
> > I might criticize him. Truly, censorship says more about the censor than
> > the censored. 
> 
> Notice that I now have you arguing -my- side of the argument. Are you
> so easily controlled? Have you asked yourself why you are that way? 
> 
> > John Gilmore, on the other hand, has been much more tolerant. He allows
> > anyone to subscribe to cypherpunks and only kicked one person off after
> > months of ranting and off-topic drivel.
> 
> An ineffective move with symbolic complications that affect no one but
> him. Why do you support this? 
> 
> > And I wonder why the Freedom Knights want to censor certain newsgroups. As
> > in their FAQ, where they condemn speech they don't like on the alt.cancel
> > and alt.nocem newsgroups and advise operators not to carry such
> > groups. 
> 
> Ah, you finally got the newsgroups right. Good. 
> 
> I censor other people's censorship. That is what I do. Call me a
> censor if you will, but if you were truly in support of free speech
> you would understand. Since you don't, your cry of wolf demonstrates
> the depth of your consideration of the subject matter.
> 
> > I think it's time to lift the veil from this public Net-menace!
> 
> Knock ya-self out.
> 
> > Founder, Boycott Freedom Knights society, Washington, DC chapter
> 
> You -do- realize, of course, that you have to organize the people
> and create a large group of opposers to my cause.
> 
> That is your destiny. Carry it out.
> ------
> Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org 
> Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet
> 
> Nasrudin arrived at an all-comers horse race mounted on the slowest of oxen.
> Everyone laughed, an ox cannot run. 
> "But I have seen it, when it was only a calf, running faster than a horse.",
> said Nasrudin. "So why should it not run faster, now that it is larger?"
> 
> 
>