From: "George A. Stathis" <hyperlex@hol.gr>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:09:58 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Does John Gilmore...
Message-ID: <199611170408.CAA08642@prometheus.hol.gr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 06:00 ìì 16/11/1996 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
>Rich Burroughs <richieb@teleport.com> writes:
>> >I have a suggestion for "Aga" and others who believe this sort of
>> >nonsense.  Please do us all a favor and try to sue John.  I'm sure
>> >that among all jack-leg and wannabe lawyers on this list that they
>> >can come up with a viable cause of action.  And John has deep
>> >pockets; you could (literally) make out like bandits AND rescue
>> >"freedom of speech" on privately maintained mailing lists.
>>
>> Such a case would obviously fail.  John has the right to ban anyone he
>> wants from a list that he is hosting.
>
>Sure he does - I've been saying all along that John Gilmore has the right to
>act dishonorably, which he exercises. Yet the censorship supporters keep
>attributing to me the diametrically opposite view - that the state can force
>John to carry even the opinions he disagrees with. This is not what I've been
>saying, of course. John Gilmore lied when he attributed this opinion to me (as
>quoted by Declan McCulough). Only his honor could force him to do that, but he
>has no honor and no credibility. John had the right to exercise censorship on
>his private mailing list, which is precisely what he did.
>
>> I do question, though, whether or not it was the best way to handle the
>> situation.  As I have argued, the availability of end-user filtering made
>> banning Dimitri from the list unnecessary, IMHO.  And the list owner giving
>> people the boot sure doesn't fit with the picture I have had of what
>> cypherpunks was about.  YMMV.
>
>Same here - I used to have respect for John Gilmore, but now I don't.


Neither do I, or my friends who heard about it.

What worries me is that people still subscribe to the cypherpunks list
after this assault on free speech takes place.

If pimps like Gilmore ever succeed in controlling people in the Net,
it will be because of people accepting to become prostituted.

I am not a petty nationalist, but where I come from, after such an
expulsion a lot of people would unsubscribe, and the issue would appear
in the daily newspapers (several pages of which every week are devoted
to Internet news and activities).

Pity I'm too busy nowadays (in dictionary software production). I would
gladly write articles on Dimitri's expulsion and the facade of Free
Speech in mailing lists etc., as I occasionally have written articles
as a part-time journalist.

Believe me, the nature of the (cypherpunks) list as well as the
importance of the person expelled (at one time I wanted to interview
Dimitri for other things he exposed), makes VERY HOT NEWS indeed.

But since I have no time, it's likely someone else will report this.

What we're REALLY interested in, is exposing fallacies about
Freedom of Speech when "private mailing lists" are the biggest threat
to it, nowadays, ever since the Net was invented.

I will pass this on to relevant people and see what happens.

Sincerily
George A. Stathis

P.S. already cross-posted this to "Eleftherotypia", perhaps the biggest
     and most democratic-minded newspaper in Athens, Greece.
     (if it bounces, I got the address wrong and will resend).