From: "George A. Stathis" <hyperlex@hol.gr>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 07:14:00 -0800 (PST)
To: Clay Olbon II <cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: REQUESTING INFORMATION :-)
Message-ID: <199611191912.RAA05944@prometheus.hol.gr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 09:07 ðì 19/11/1996 -0500, Clay Olbon II wrote:
9in response to...)
>>to unemployment. We plan to give these names to all our friends, so
>>as to warn them WHO to avoid during our summer holidays in Greek
>>Islands.        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Why don't you come back to reality.

Gee! hey, hey, hey... that was a joke!... :-)



>I have hired and fired people.  Those
>that I fired I would not hire again. 

So have I, as a matter of fact. Though I found that people who don't
become friends _and_ business _partners_ as well, tend to be useless
due to the _type_ of we're doing here. We don't need 'workers'; we
need co-developers, responsible partners and co-researchers. We are
in Natural Language Processing (with PROLOG/'C'/Assembly).




>There are others I have worked with
>that I would never hire (and would strongly recommend against anyone else
>hiring).  That is life.  I have little sympathy for the "unfortunate" people
>that I may hurt by not recommending their employment.  Generally it is
>because they are lazy, stupid, or dishonest.
                  ^^^^  ^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^^
I understand you completely here. I sympathize.



>This is a judgement call on my
>part, and others are free to take or discard my recommendations based on my
>reputation.  

You sound honest and down to earth. I like these qualities very much.


>Here is my recommendation for you.  Take my "unemployables" list.  Hire
>everyone on it.  Try to run a business without going broke.

Does your "unemployment list" include Doctor Dimitri Vulis? I'd be greatful
to know this.
Please, seriously now, and if you have such evidence (that
Dimitri is 'lazy', 'stupid' or 'dishonest') send to me if you can...

Please provide _evidence_ for his 'fame'. I will have NO MORE slander behind
the guy's back. WHAT is going on? I've been harrassed and threatended TOO,
just because of defending him or supporting people's rights to a fair trial?

WHERE do you live, dude? In Nazi Germany? :-(

I have no disagreement with your down-to-earth explanations. But...

Sooner or later your 'sheep-leader' Mr. Gilmore will start blocking access
to MORE geniouses (other than Voulis, who I think _could_ be one) to your
list, and then encryption will be entrusted to morons who can at ANY moment
have their coding systems BROKEN!!!


Perhaps you misunderstood my objections to your practises. FROM the moment
that (for instance) people EVEN like myself receive notices (or threats of)
unemployability (as indeed happened in the letter quoted below) it's an
alarming sign that the _criteria_ for unemployability are no longer your
own decent down-to-earth criteria (honesty, intelligence, trust-worthiness)
but very dark and dubious and QUITE FASCIST criteria instead.

It's only recently that the type of fascist harrassment like "We'll put
you on our U-list", has reached such ABUSE, MISUSE, and ALARMING FREQUENCY.
For some people it's become bread and butter and cheese, apparently...


I would say you are a decent, honest, fearless man trying to do a job which
has a LOT of responsibility, and you may be one among a HUNDRED morons who
by adding NAMES in 'unemployability' lists are no fucking different than
TRAITORS of your country and Nazi Sympathizer in Western Europe.

YOU get back to reality and defend your country from fascism (NOt you
personally, because you had the decency and the honesty to reply), the
OTHERS must get back to reality.

BACK-STABBING and SLANDER (of Dimitri or of anyone) has NOTHING to do
with _serious_ issues of 'unemployability'., FURTHERMORE people are NEVER
guilty before PROVEN so. Guilt or Innocence is NOT a matter of 'opinion',
EITHER of 'mobs' OR of 'leaders', or of would-be psychiatrists roaming
the streets looking for 'juvenile kooks', or other types of labels.

You are, most probably, a real person with very real responsibilites.
In this case, I appreciate you a lot, and hopefully my complaints have
reached the right man's ear.


With Appreciation and Thanks
George A. Stathis
(Software Producer and Developer
 ....'harrassed' -he he- by the following... fascist-scum-letter):

***********************************************************************






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>To: "George A. Stathis" <hyperlex@hol.gr>
>From: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net>
>Subject: Stathis on "Don't Hire" List
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>At 9:00 AM -0200 11/17/96, George A. Stathis wrote:
>
>>It is not ethical to send such strong negative _injunctions_ to masses
>>of people and also to strangers (the 1900-strong members of the cyberphunks
>>list for instance). Because, you may or may not have strong reasons for
>>believing you are justified in such invalidation, but more than a 1000
>>people are now _told_ by (self-appointed) "experts" such as yourself what
>>and whom to ignore or to believe. (Like sheep led to the slaughter)...
>
>"Not ethical"?
>
>But we will do it anyway. Moreover, some of us maintain lists of "Do Not
>Hire" persons. Few high tech or Silicon Valley software companies will hire
>such folks.
>
>Congratulations, Stathis, as you are now on such a list.
>
>
>
>"The government announcement is disastrous," said Jim Bidzos,.."We warned IBM
>that the National Security Agency would try to twist their technology."
>[NYT, 1996-10-02]
>We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments.
>"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
>
>
>
>
>