From: "George A. Stathis" <hyperlex@hol.gr>
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 02:41:45 -0800 (PST)
To: hyperlex@hol.gr>
Subject: Re: Does John Gilmore...
Message-ID: <199611171440.MAA29860@prometheus.hol.gr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 05:08 ðì 17/11/1996 -0500, Black Unicorn wrote:
>The problem with people too used to dictatorships is that they grow
>so accustomed to taking those favors and incentives which are dictated to
>them that the freedom (and responsibility) of "financial gain" seem like
>too much work.


Boy oh boy!!!! :-) Financial Gain being "too much work"??? :-)

Hey dude, I work for myself, you know. Ever since childhood, I learned
how not to rely on ANYBODY.

I experienced no "favors" nor "incentives" whatsoever, all my life.
The taxation here is designed to drain the blood of all SMALL businesses
(like mine) and favor the big businesses.
There is very poor welfare here, too. America is almost... socialist
in some respects compared to the Greek welfare state.

Your 'model' of what's going on is more appropriate for the Russians
and the Eastern Block (former) dictatorships, in which case I agree! :-)



>The free market will ever be the only real path to free speech, because,
>in essence, it is free speech.

The free market is the _precondition_ for free speech. But Free speech
does NOT necessarily follow from it. What happened in GREECE and CHILE
in fact is a living proof of this: Such countries had ENTIRELY free
market and NO FREE SPEECH. This is right-wing fascism, as you know.
I hope you agree with these clarifications. I don't see why not...



>Much easier to just work for food.  "The all-knowing General Pinoriega
>would have given us money if we needed it."

The 'all-knowing' dictators of Chile (installed by US involvement)
gave NO money to ANYBODY (but big businesses and American corporations).

As for the Nicaraguan case, the scandal of the C.I.A. financing the
contras using drug-money from selling drugs to American Blacks has
been thoroughly exposed in the rest of the world.

The only 'all-knowing' philanthropists around the world have been
the Stalinist lunatics who are nowdays replaced by (more 'professional'
Mafiozos).

You should be glad to be American, in fact! :-)
(At least you are ruled by the Trilateral Commission; the Mafia plays
 only a secondary role in your politics). :-)




>Of course the result is an increased dependence on the state.


We never run out of saliva spitting on the face of the (Greek) state
over here. Same is true all over the world...



>Market economies which approach true "free market" status provide no
>foothold for regulation.  You cannot really have one without the
>other.

This is a big discussion. The free market _is_ the only way. I agree.
However, as I explained in another (private and humourous) posting,
for instance, I am a winter-swimmer, and use the facilities of a beach
run and owned by the State here in Greece, which will probably CLOSE
DOWN, as soon as it is privatised. At the moment, it's a gift to us
-10 or 20 'winter-swimmers' operating at a loss, not a profit. One
must be on guard for extreme views, neo-liberal or otherwise)... :-)



>(Note the coming backlash against free speech and free markets in
>the United States).

I am in solidarity with your worries, and in favour of both.
But... Sometimes one does not 'automatically' imply the other.



>Free speech does not, however, require that all speech be universally
>broadcast to each and every citizen on the planet free of charge.  That's
>"subsidized speech."

How much should I be charged for every word I utter?  In 1990 I was being
PAID for every word I wrote. Not so anymore! :-) :-)
At least you could afford (as the English say)... 1 penny for these
thoughts! ROTFL!!!! :-)


>Consider long and hard if that is the path that you would like to take.


Me? I voluntarily waste my time, dude, to write my opinions for free! :-)
It's the last thing I do for free, after some rare friendships
and other rare precious things in life.  Don't we al have such things? :-)

If we don't write _some_ opinions for free we'd all become... whores
waiting for the next pimp to exercise 'list-owner's rights on our speech.
Or get bribed to tell lies, and so on! :-) :-)

Perhaps my clarifications helped.
George


P.S.
In Logic, Complete Systems are Consistent, and Consistent Systems
are Incomplete. Thus, 'extreme views' of any kind are impractical.
(theorem of Goedel in Logic and Mathematics applied in practice).