From: "George A. Stathis" <hyperlex@hol.gr>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:27:17 -0800 (PST)
To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org
Subject: Re: THAT is what makes (ANY) "John" an ASSHOLE!
Message-ID: <199611161225.KAA11219@prometheus.hol.gr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Flames? What flames?  Hm...

I'm neither a fireman, nor a... pyromaniac! :-)

******************************************************************
Gradually, I came to the conclusion that "Flame wars" rage-on
because of INTOLERANCE.  Typically, they develop at a "meta-level"
to the flames _themselves_, and escalate when people start talking
about "getting offended" and that kind of shit, aiming at CONTROL.
******************************************************************



At 08:00 ðì 15/11/1996 -0500, aga wrote:

>This whole thing boils down to John Gilmore not liking
>"rants" or "personal attacks."  What does that chicken-shit
                                 **************************
>punk hide behind in real life?  When his terminal is not
 ********************************************************
>protecting him?
 ***************
  ^^^
VERY IMPORTANT ($1000-) QUESTION HERE!
( I've often wondered myself... )

i.e. (the wider issue) HOW does cowardice manage to *fake* power?

Well, having lived outside my country for about 15 years, at first
I tried to blame... some nationalities (such as the English) for
possessing the cowardice which is the root of the problem.
(-NOT true, in fact. Being "reserved" is not always "cowardly").

Then I blamed the... gullible Americans; then my... "buzuki-minded"
Greek compatriots (those who've never been outside their villages).
(BTW a "buzuki" is a fuckin-awful Greek/Turkish musical instrument
 I can't stand, which puts me in the minority over here)... :-)

However, it's a deeper and wider problem than such narrow "national"
explanations. Boils down to _personal_ growth, maturity, tolerance,
and the ability to respond in a "tit-for-tat" basis, rather than a
"look mummy what they've done to me" mentality-basis (TM/worldwide).

Another way of looking at it is this: DO NOT carry guns when going
to the... saloon (or to the Internet discussion)... :-)
( A list-owner's _only_ gun is "forcible unsubcription". )


Tit-for-Tat is simple enough, and does NOT always imply escalation;
e.g. If someone calls me an asshole, I _also_ call the guy an
asshole. It doesn't have to continue... Then (and only then)
_if_ he and I calm down, we MIGHT buy each other drinks!

The Anglo-Saxon way of Politeness and the Greek way of Expressiveness
are not incompatible, BTW: Oscar Wilde said that "A gentleman is a man
who knows _when_ to be rude".

Of course, gentlemen ALSO make mistakes. (AND admit them, bravely;
in direct contrast to the view that "a man admits no mistake").

But if you called me an asshole, and I REFRAINED from answering back,
becoming friends again would be indeed humiliating: THIS is the Greek
way, as I understand it; Insults can be *CATHARTIC*. Censoring insults
is HIDEOUS, HOSTILE, and DANGEROUS. I can forgive ANY insult, but NOT
an act of censorship. Either we speak as equals, or else we kill each
other. And censorship is like _spiritual_ MURDER, philosophically.

I also never understood why an insult offends the "insultee"; Is not
"hurt" an indication that the "offensive" attributions are TRUE?

Some of my English friends never understood why the Greeks burst
out in laughter with some of the most horrifying insults... :-)



>John Gilmore is connected with the corrupt
>cabal boys anyway, so he should be dismissed as anybody having
>any credibility any more.
>
>"Once you pull the first plug, you are forever more a whore,"
  **********************************************************
>as the greeks would say.

A ha ha! :-)
Indeed (and it rhymes!)

Minor Correction: (Once pulling a plug) one is a pimp, not a whore.
A whore's worst problem is that she OBEYS her pimp.
And we intend NOT TO become WHORES for the benefit of (would-be-)
Net-pimps censoring us in order to hide their cowardice in REAL life.


Regards
George

P.S.
Why do I agree with Aga? My life outside the Net guarantees SOME sanity;
E.g. the climate here allows me to swim nearly every day in the beach! :-)
(except in December/January/February). So,
I prefer to be liked for what I am, or what I do in _real_ life, rather
than for my... scribbles in the Net (as I write for... pleasure mostly!)

*************************************************************************
"A beautiful female ass is worth a thousand Buddhas".
                        (Greek... Heterosexist Zen-saying). :-)
*************************************************************************

P.S.2 (added later)
Semantically speaking, the word "poutana"(whore) in Greek can also mean...
someone really clever, ya know. So let's not underestimate whores! :-)

Here is a list of a few WEIRD semantic connotations in the Greek language:

"Big Whore"  ("megali poutana")  =  Very shrewd clever guy; Shrewd salesman.

"Big Faggot" ("megalos poustis") =  Very Devious (or Secretive) Impauster.

"Big Wanker" ("megalos malakas") =  Very gullible stupid guy; Clueless fool.

"Big Pimp"   ("megalo-tavatzis") =  Authoritarian or Censorous Media Director.

The sexual connotations are often LOST; those listed above are more valid. :)

Complaints about "political correctness" are irrelevant. You hear gay people
call each other "poustis" and women call each other the same names too...