From: snow <snow@smoke.suba.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:40:29 -0800 (PST)
To: wfrench@interport.net (Will French)
Subject: Re: Censorship on cypherpunks
In-Reply-To: <199611040326.WAA15698@interport.net>
Message-ID: <199611042347.RAA08151@smoke.suba.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> > It's only authoritarianism if the government is involved. 
> > Clearly, the government isn't involved in this matter.
>   Until now, I'd considered the list as a model of a libertarian
> society, with the listowner as the government.  My point is that
> if a mailing list (where physical force is generally not a
> factor) can't be run without arbitrary sanctions against
> members, how could anyone ever hope for a whole society, with a
> real, gun-toting government, to run that way?

     At first I had a big problem with Vulva being kicked off the list, 
but I thought about it a while, and as more information developed I came
to the following conclusion:

     Vulis wasn't banned from the list because of _off topic_ posts, nor
was he booted for descenting opnions. He was not removed without warning,
nor for an occasional flame. He was removed for persistent off-topic 
flaming, after at least one warning, and several people asking him to stop.

     The closest anology I can find in real life would be a bar, were people
any person (well, any person old enough, but we'll ignore that) is allowed 
to wander in, order a drink, watch TV, shout at the screen ocassionally 
eat the pretzels and etc. Off in the corner you have a drunk dancing off
time to the noise on the jukebox, but most of the patrons can ignore him.

    Vulis is sitting square in the middle of the bar, sloshed to the gills
throwing pretzels and peanuts at both fans of the opposing team, and 
fans of his team. Screaming at the top of his lungs about the quarterback 
for a totally different team fumbling the ball in the 1970 world series.

    The bar tender asks Vulis politely to cease and desist. Vulis pours 
his beer on him. Vulis then demands another drink, insisting it is his
right to a beer. At this point the Big Bearded Guy at the door with the 
USMC tattoo, and the 37 knife scars drops his ham sized mit on Vulis's  
shoulder. 

     "Buddy" he says "If you don't quiet down and watch the game I'm going
to have to ask you to leave".   

     "Fuck you, you ignorant sovek <spit> pansy" was Vulis' reply. 

     The next sound was Vulis' head opening the door so the rest of his body 
could follow it onto the street, where he stands screaming curses at the 
patrons and the doorman.

     Of course now it is quieter inside, and the noise level will drop even
more once Vulis quiets down, sobers up, or just goes home, and after the 
other drunks quit pondering the situation aloud, and go back to discussing 
the game. Then the only obstruction will be the drunk in the corner who 
keeps stumbling into the jukebox, causing the record to scratch.

     Then there is the patron who left the bar a couple weeks ago in disgust
because he didn't want to talk _about_ football, he just wanted to 
discuss how to make the pitchers better able to slam dunk, and he is planning
to open his own bar down the street...


 
Petro, Christopher C.
petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff>
snow@smoke.suba.com