From: "Robin Whittle" <firstpr@ozemail.com.au>
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 03:55:08 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Dorthy Denning is a boot-licking fasicist!!!
Message-ID: <199611271154.WAA26338@oznet02.ozemail.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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William H. Geiger III <whgiii@amaranth.com> wrote:

> Dorthy Denning is a boot-licking fasicist!!!

> Dorthy Denning gave the most pro-government speech I have ever
> heard. Is this clueless bitch on the government payroll?!!

Spelling please!  "Dorothy".  She is a US academic.

It may be emotionally satisfying to rail against (what for us may be
evident as) the wickedness and stupidity of our opponents.

I did not see the testimony, so I can't comment on it.

However I believe that Dorothy Denning is motivated as much as many of
us by the desire for a healthy society.  The sharp difference in
crypto policy can probably be explained by a differing understanding
of:

1 - The likely behaviour of professional criminals, normal people,
    government officials and criminal government officials in the
    future with various forms of crypto system.

2 - Different levels of trust and fear regarding crime in general,
    big-time crime in particular and the use and abuse of law 
    enforcement and other government powers.

3 - Probably other things too.


I think that there are different personality types at work here. 
Adding to that is the tendency for governments to employ people who
generally trust governments, their desire to perpetuate their former
abilities to detect and deter crime and especially the problem of
*groupthink*.

Groupthink is the tendency for like minded individuals to reject
uncomfortable notions, and so develop a seriously inadequate
understanding of reality.

JFK admitted they were stupid to commence the Bay of Pigs invasion. 
Clinton will probably say the same thing about crypto export controls.

There is clear evidence that, being surrounded by like minded 
advisers, both presidents were the victims of groupthink.

If we nod our heads to "Dorthy Denning is a boot-licking fasicist!!!"
then we too are succumbing to groupthink.

See:

   http://www.ozemail.com.au/~firstpr/crypto/oecd_dr.htm

for Dorothy Denning's response to my challenge for justifying costs of
key-escrow/recovery against the likely benefit in crime reduction. I
don't think it is a very strong response, and while many on this list
will know more about her than I do, her response does not strike me as
the work of someone who is unintelligent, uninterested in the future
of society or a fascist.

The net result of various misunderstandings (such as Clinton and Co.
must have about the freely available nature of strong crypto) may well
be stupidity on a grand scale.

There are personality types who lean away from privacy and towards
dangerous levels of government control.  I think this can be amplified
by the circumstances in which these people work - and groupthink is a
big part of that.  

oecd_dr.htm is a recent draft of some OECD crypto work, with my
comments, especially concerning the likely behaviour of criminals
communicating both with other criminals and with non-criminals.  It
also has some information on an essay by Irving L. Janis called "Group
Think" which I recommend to everyone who is involved in policy
debates.

- Robin





. Robin Whittle                                               .
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