From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:57:36 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Silence is not assent (re the Vulis nonsense)
In-Reply-To: <199612070421.WAA24511@mail.gte.net>
Message-ID: <32A8F8CA.1F7C@gte.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Blanc Weber wrote:

NOTE: original posting undeliverable due to spelling: cyhpherpunks

> From:   Dale Thorn
> If you could analogize the list to a human society, then you might
> understand that a pattern of decadence can set in here as it does in
> the more visible society, as is run from Washington DC, etc.  It is
> my hope to make a contribution here (as in the more visible society)
> to fight off some of that decadence, even when I get beat up on for it.

> There is a huge the difference between a society of people relating to
> each other based on principles of coercion vs an extemporaneous society
> of individuals who make their own decisions (daily) about when/where/how
> long they will associate with another.
> The society run by Washington,D.C. expects that people will have no
> choice but to fly in formation in the direction set by the leader who
> represents the majority (sort of).

That's a judgement, rather than an obvious truth.  Fact is, service in
Washington is purely voluntary, and one can leave anytime they wish.

> The virtual "society" of the cpunks is only based on their interest in
> opening up their mail and reading a few messages here & there according
> to their mood of the day or the moment.

Sounds pretty casual, doesn't it?  Maybe there are a *few* c-punks who
fit that description, but there are at least as many who are in this
thing for some heavy action, if you know what I mean, and I think you do.

> It is true that formal societies, like the one which was initially
> intended by The Founders (of the US), often run afoul of the original
> purpose for which it was begun.   They decay for many reasons.   This is
> precisely one of the elements in the background of the cpunks thinking
> ("the founders" and others) about societies and the "ties that bind"
> (supposedly) us to each other:  the interest in being released from that
> supposition that we are bound to each other and are obligated to
> maintain a relationship of some kind (as determined by the PC moral
> 'authorities').

[snip]

When I "joined" the Audio Engineering Society in the late 1970's, to get
their journal cheap, it was going pretty good.  Eventually it decayed
quite a bit, where they were running more pictures of their get-togethers
and awards programs than anything else.  I see cypherpunks in the same
straits potentially, as long as so many of the long-term "members" can
continue claiming that "It belongs to one person, really, our Cypherpunks
God", etc.  Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of potential here, and I
hope it continues, but....  BTW, thanks for a very civil reply.