From: nobody@zifi.genetics.utah.edu (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:37:18 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Counterproductive Dorothy Denning Flames
Message-ID: <199612031737.KAA02719@zifi.genetics.utah.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:10 AM 11/27/1996, Mike Duvos wrote:
>William H. Geiger III writes:
>
> > Dorthy Denning is a boot-licking fasicist!!!
>
> > William Reinsch is a lying bastard. Fucking politions!!
> > Fucking goverment!! They all deserve a long rope!!
>
>It is perhaps a point in Dr. Denning's favor that her most
>vitriolic detractors can spell neither "Dorothy" nor "fascist".
>
>I must admit that I am at a loss to understand the heat which
>Dorothy Denning generates on the Cypherpunks list, which seems to
>be second only to the heat generated by posting recipes for roast
>feline in rec.pets.cats.

I find it interesting that you see Willam H. Geiger as a spokesman for
the cypherpunks list.  Remember, the list is open to anyone who can
operate majordomo except one.

The level of vitriol expressed by random e-mail users in the whole
world can hardly be said to be a "point" in anyone's favor.

>All of the people I know who have met her find her to be a
>pleasant person, and the occasional Email messages we have
>exchanged have certainly been positive and friendly.

Irrelevant, of course.  Some of the most terrible people in the world
have been pleasant.  D. Denning may or may not be the most terrible
person in the world, but her pleasantness is unrelated.

>While she tends to view the Four Horsemen of the Infocolypse as a bit
>more threatening than the typical Cypherpunk, I don't think her views
>are so extreme as to justify the continuous screams of "crypto
>toady", "government suckup", and "wicked witch" which seem to pop up
>in response to her every utterance.

Personally, what I have found irritating about Denning is the fact
that she is widely considered to be a credible spokesperson.
Statements along the lines of "I can't tell you the scenarios we are
worried about because they are classified" are a little hard to take
seriously in a democracy.

Imagine if you or I tried to claim that we had to deploy strong crypto
but that for "reasons of cypherpunk security" the scenarios with which
we were concerned could not be revealed.  We would be laughed out of
the forum and properly so.

Denning is considered credible solely because her statements are
consistent with the interests and views of those in authority.

>I would even go so far as to say that this list would be a lot
>more entertaining if she were contributing to it, and sci.crypt
>is certainly a less interesting place now than it was in bygone
>days when she was posting there.

Denning has little to add to the cypherpunks list.  The core belief of
the cypherpunks is that their mail is their business.  People who do
not believe this are not cypherpunks and should not subscribe to the
list nor should they post to it.

Sir Galahad