From: "Mark Rosen" <mrosen@peganet.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 22:57:11 -0800 (PST)
To: "Dale Thorn" <dthorn@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Ebonics
Message-ID: <199612230641.BAA13632@mercury.peganet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> 1. What do you mean conclude?  For whom?
	I mean conclude. For me. I am the authority on all. I am just personally a
little sick of this Ebonics thing, as we have obviously irreconcilable
positions. I tried to take a concilliatory position with which all would
agree. It has little to do with cryptography and is a stretch even for this
generally weird mailing list.

> 2. Rather than hypothesize a "standard" language, the language evolves
>    and generates the standard.  Just relax and enjoy it.
	No. I'm right and you're wrong. Face it. :-)

> 3. Black people are/are not stupider than what?  Mark, you should go
>    live in the deep South for awhile, and become part of it, and
>    watch the outsiders come in and tell your friends and neighbors on
>    the TV, on radio, and in in-person seminars that they speak "wrongly"
>    and should lose their Southern "accents", as though they were
something
>    to be ashamed of.
> 
>    Mark, you need to learn simple logic.  Instead of saying "...are often
>    difficult to understand", you should say "...are often difficult for
>    *me* to understand".
	I personally have no problem understanding Southern accents. Other people
have stated that they have problems understanding Ebonics, so I was just
playing devil's advocate and taking another, conflicting position. I sense
that one of the reasons why *some* people are so disgusted with Ebonics is
that only black people speak it. I am just responding to those racist
sentiments (Ahem. Timothy May) and trying to present a white example of
muddled speech. Also, the entire issue of clarity of speech is relative and
*will* be different for each person, another thing many people are
ignoring.

>    You see, Mark, I could understand you in speech I am sure, and I can
>    also understand the Southern speech by-and-large, but it's you who
>    seems to have the limitations. Now you want to force people who don't
>    talk like you to talk like you, otherwise you won't deal with them.
> 
>    What a petty, narrow-minded person you must be, and how sad.
	Again, I was being devil's advocate and imitating other people's distaste
with Ebonics. Your rather biting comments describe their narrow mindedness.