From: Kevin L Prigge <Kevin.L.Prigge-2@tc.umn.edu>
To: paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
Message Hash: 086e87ebb0e2f63b6cee9adca1bc479fbce512ed6443191fd30e88950a054a00
Message ID: <199701271927.LAA02277@toad.com>
Reply To: N/A
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-27 19:27:15 UTC
Raw Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:27:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Kevin L Prigge <Kevin.L.Prigge-2@tc.umn.edu>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:27:15 -0800 (PST)
To: paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
Message-ID: <199701271927.LAA02277@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk said:
> > I think both of these groups are intellectually dishonest in the
> > extreme when it comes to telling others how this list should be
> > run. I doubt any of them would permit the sort of disruptive
> > behavior that goes on here to go unchallenged in salons they
> > sponsor in their own homes or on Net lists that they themselves
> > maintain.
>
> If you want to talk about intellectual dishonesty try the following:
>
> Imagine if you will a list, the original purpose of which was
> to act as a free and open forum for discussion of cryptography and
> related issues. A list which proudly proclaims in its "welcome to
> the list" message:
>
> We do not seek to prevent other people from
> speaking about their experiences or their opinions.
>
> Now imagine that list falling into a state of content based
> censorship and censorship based on an unspoken but ever present
> class structure, then ask yourself which list you know that most
> closely matches this description, it`s a pretty revealing exercise.
The exercise reveals to me that only by ignoring the first paragraph
of your example, the part that reads "Imagine if you will a list,
the original purpose of which was to act as a free and open forum
for discussion of cryptography and related issues." can you make
a claim of content based censorship. The purpose of this list was
and should be discussion of cryptography and related issues. The
fact that some people choose this as a forum for personal attacks
and blathering about issues that are not even vaguely related to
the discussion of cryptography and related issues does not make it
a proper forum for such communication.
> > This is a voluntary list folks. We tried incivility and that did
> > not work. Right now we are experimenting with reasoned discourse
> > in an atmosphere of interpersonal respect and good will.
>
> For "Reasoned discourse in an atmosphere of interpersonal respect and
> good will" read "content based censorship".
For "voluntary list" read "voluntary list".
>
> > If most list members like the change, it will continue. If not, then we
> > can go back to the swill or perhaps try something else. In the
> > meantime, get over it. If you really like flames and spam, show
> > John and me how it really should be done. Start another list.
> > Of course squating and claim jumping appeal to the lazy a lot
> > more than homesteading.
>
> It is a foregone conclusion that the upper class of list members will
> have no dispute over the censorship and therefore the change will be
> permenant, it is a form of online ethnic cleansing whereby the lists
> clique of illuminati have taken it upon themselves to remove the
> elements of the list they feel endanger their position of superiority
> and respect, the point they have missed is that they have no
> credibility whatsoever after this incident, as well as a number of
> other such occurances and therefore are only isolating themselves
> into their own little world.
The Big Lie once again. yadda yadda yadda "Censorship!" yadda yadda
yadda "No Credibility" yadda yadda yadda ad nauseum.
>
> "cypherpunks will make the networks safe for censorship"
"Idiots will make the networks require censorship"
--
Kevin L. Prigge | Some mornings, it's just not worth
Systems Software Programmer | chewing through the leather straps.
Internet Enterprise - OIT | - Emo Phillips
University of Minnesota |
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1997-01-27 (Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:27:15 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list - Kevin L Prigge <Kevin.L.Prigge-2@tc.umn.edu>