From: Toto <toto@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:46:01 -0800 (PST)
To: "Attila T. Hun" <attila@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
In-Reply-To: <199701260749.AAA25243@infowest.com>
Message-ID: <32EB3666.62F8@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Attila T. Hun wrote:
>         I question how Sandy can accept the job as moderator, passing
>     judgement on 100-300 messages per day.  just trimming spam is
>     questionable: what is spam?  flames: what draws the line at flames:

 It is whatever the moderator decides it is, depending upon h/is/er 
intelligence, understanding, mood, command of language, sobriety,
etc., etc., etc.

>         and, I think cypherpunks is setting an atrocious example of our
>     own narrow mindedness (creditable or not) when we sanction any
>     filtering of what we see --is this not **exactly** what we accuse
>     the controlled media of determining what is "fit to print?"

 I am certain that there are members of the controlled media who are
ROTL at the CypherPunks following in their footsteps, after having
belittled the media for years for their sheep-mentality.
 
>         unfortunately, we are demonstrating to our critics that 
>         a)  net anarchy does not work
>         b)  cyberlibertarianism breeds anarchy
>         c)  we're loose cannons on the deck
>         d)  we are not civilized enough to warrant respect

 We are also demonstrating that all of the CypherPunk rhetoric about
cryptography and freedom and... was just a lot of 'smoke' being 
blown by a bunch of pretenders who folded like a busted flush when
they were 'told' that the man who owns the Machine will now subject
them to the whims of whatever moderation he sees fit to impose on
the list.
  Cryptography is about privacy. Apparently, however, the New List
Order is of the opinion the Privacy Without Freedom is an obtainable
goal.

>         --catch22: just how do set the laws on limits, and how do you
>     enforce the limits if you have voted to dissolve all 'government'
>     and 'police?'

  It doesn't matter if the 'owner' of the list/Machine decides that s/he
is now the government, with the power and/or right to make all decisions
concerning the list.

>         good luck, Sandy;  make sure you pull a sanity check everyday
>     when you start and finish the onerous task!

  I think that anyone who thinks that moderation is, or could ever be,
anything other than a dance into the arms of the establishment, is
already crazy.
  For the record, I don't think that either John or Sandy is crazy.
I think that they have their own pre-established goals which others
on the cypherpunks list are not privy to.
  Of course, this is my personal opinion, and I could be wrong.
  On the other hand, I could be 'right' like I am about everything
else.

Toto