From: "Bill Campbell" <wcampbel@peganet.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:25:56 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering "experiment"
Message-ID: <199701210718.CAA16490@mercury.peganet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Toto <toto@sk.sympatico.ca wrote:
> If what you say is true, then Dr. DV K's efforts are quite possibly 
> the most important issue being addressed in this conference, because
> behind free speech, lies the most important issue of all--when does
> it start, and when does it stop.

  As a long time lurker (much longer than many of the numerous
relatively recent vociferous posters) I *must* speak up.
  If the dear "Doctor's" posting are indeed a "grand" experiment
in newsgroup (or maillist) sociology, then it seems they are akin to
experiments in recent history; if the patient dies, so what? There are
other lists...
  While many of you think that the ability of a list to withstand
constant spamming is an important issue; the government is busily
working to outlaw encryption and privacy, and I fear that much
is lost by the side issue of the "how easily can I kill a list".
I feel we at a *critical* crossroads in this debate, and one of the
more important voices has *very* effectively been silenced.

>   The military-industrial complex proclaims this necessary for the
> purposes of state-security, and denies that it is used in order to keep 
> their 'sins' from being exposed. (If you believe this, then please 
> contact me by private email regarding an ocean-front property I have
> available in Tucson, AZ.  If you act quickly, I will throw in a set
> of the Amazing Ginzu Knives as an added bonus.)

  This is very true, but I cannot understand why you think that
the attempt to disrupt and destroy this list a necessary step
in the task of resisting this governmental effort.

>   As far as I am concerned, any CypherPunk who believes that the
> socio/politico issues surrounding cryptography are not important
> enough to be an integral part of this list is falling into the
> same type of trap as those who think that they can become good
> cryptographers without becoming good cryptanalysts.

  Again, I can't understand why "killing the messenger" is advancing
the issues of privacy and crypto issues. How does the posting of
numerous crude anti-Tim May messages promote personal privacy?

> > "In peacetime, a warlike man sets upon himself." -- Nietzsche
>   "In times of war, a peacelike man sets upon others."
>        Bubba Rom Dos

  This seems horribly to describe the current situation.

=Bill=