From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 23:50:29 -0800 (PST)
To: John Young <jya@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Who's Censoring Who?
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970209181732.006dba6c@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <32FED2DA.2C24@gte.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young wrote:

> Sandy's e-mailed several of us who've sent messages about Vulis's
> ploy to put Sandy in a conflict-of-interest bind -- a well-known attack
> on moderators of all kinds, not just on the net.

Now you've admitted that Sandy, ever more desperate, is grasping
for allies for some future attack.  And you've accused Dr. Vulis
of plotting against Sandy.  Tsk tsk.

> What's worth admiring is how Vulis has adeptly managed to get others
>  -- targets and witting and unwitting cohorts -- to go along with his attack,
> attack, attack, by opposing or supporting it. A useful lesson.

This is not the healthy kind of paranoia.

> Smart dude, that Vulis, but no more so than others on the Net, say,
> Tim May, and in the world who've done the same elsewhere, maybe
> by even smarter dude(s) who provoked, angered, insulted, an unwitting
> Vulis, or May, to attack on behalf of ...

Tim May in the same breath as Dr. Vulis?  I underestimated the level
of desperation here.

> But such deception is to be expected, along with feigned suprise and
> outrage at the unfairness of opponents fighting as dirty as one's own
> pure-blackhearts.

Neither I nor (I'm certain) Dr. Vulis are surprised by any of this.
Who were you referring to?

> Sandy's not censoring cypherpunks, nor is Vulis or May or any single
> person alone. As Pogo said, it's all of us, posters and lurkers and spooks,
> each trying to get one's way to prevail, under guise of a high principle not
> easily honored when the squeeze is on alone in a dark cell. Come on out
> Sandy, it was just a drill.

Well, he claims he's not censoring anymore.  If you believe that,
you're probably waiting for the Easter bunny.

> It's probably worth saving accusations of censorship for the real thing,
> after trial usage here for what is truly nasty high-stakes global info-war
> gaming.

Blah blah blah blah.  Bottom line is this:  "Moderation" is really
censorship.  You can go on with this "plausible denial" all you
want to, but the jig is up, so to speak.  They've been caught being
sneaky and deceptive with people's mail.  Naughty naughty.