From: Dave Hayes <dave@kachina.jetcafe.org>
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:58:29 -0800 (PST)
To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org
Subject: Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
Message-ID: <199702151058.CAA03241@kachina.jetcafe.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Against Moderation <antimod@nym.alias.net> writes:
> Perhaps I did not make myself clear.  I never suggested Dr. Grubor's
> views should be suppressed.  Not only do I believe he has every right
> to express them, I also believe (as I explained) that I think there is
> value in inducing censorship as he has, so as to get people's
> censorious tendencies out in the open where they can be fought.

If you know this, then I fail to understand your arguments with
him?

> However, Dr. Grubor is no advocate of free speech (though I'm sure he
> thinks he is).  If Dr. Grubor had his way, he would severely restrict
> the rights of gay people to express themselves on Usenet.  Advocates
> of free speech must truly tolerate all speech, even that which they
> find strongly unpleasant or disturbing.

I'm still not sure you are understanding as you claim you are. Look at
what he says. Ask yourself if he supports freedom.  If you think he
does not, then for -you- he does not. If you want to know the real
man, take him to dinner.

> My point was therefore that Dr. Grubor would do better to say
> "Exterminate all faggots" than "Exterminate all faggots in the name of
> free speech," and that those of us who truly support freedom of speech
> would do well to distance ourselves from Dr. Grubor, while still fully
> supporting his right to express his opinions.

Nonsense. I claim that those of us who truly support freedom of speech
must -embrace- Dr. Grubor as a respected man of great skill, for he
can show us just how free any mailing list or newsgroup truly is.
------
Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org 
Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet

      A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance 
                when the need for illusion is deep