From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 14:24:34 -0800 (PST)
To: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net>
Subject: Re: Filling Power Vacuums
In-Reply-To: <199702032011.MAA01084@toad.com>
Message-ID: <199702032224.OAA00880@netcom9.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



timmy writes:

<It's about "power grabs."
<
<You see, in any anarchic situation, where reliance on self-control and
<self-filtering is emphasized, there is always a _temptation_ for some to
<"fill the power vacuum" and grab power.

ah, so what's the solution?

<I learned in my years at Intel how easy it was to start bossing people
<around, and as I hired engineers and scientists, I built up quite a little
<empire. But I didn't like what it was doing to me, as it distanced me from
<the technology and also brought out "control freak" tendencies....I started
<worrying about how my people were using their time ("my" time), and I
<increasingly applied my own notions of what they should talk about and what
<were suitable topics for laboratory chatter. In other words, I became a
<censor. (Not a government censor, but a censor in the broader definition
<I've already cited.)

timmy, I encourage you to understand that leadership is not 
inherently evil. there are enlightened ways to lead people that
leave the group better as a whole. you just fell into the trap
of "negative leadership", the dark side of the force as you write.
imho, however, there is a light side of the force that still involves
leadership.

<(I accept the role hierarchies play in corporations. They can't be built
<with just people like me. They need leaders, controllers, power freaks,
<etc.

oops, a little bit of a glaring logical error there imho. leadership is not
equivalent to a hierarchy imho. admittedly, it often translates that
way. 

 But a virtual community like the Cypherpunks group is not such a
<heirarchical organization, and it needs few rules, leaders, etc. "We don't
<need no steenking leaders.")

yes, if you only want to be an ineffectual debate society with no
significant power whatseover.

<As this relates to Cypherpunks, I have steadfastly refused to consider any
<"management role," so to speak, in how the list is run, the formal
<policies, etc. I'm not saying there has been a call for management (though
<Detweiler used to rail against us for not having a management heirarchy,
<for not having rules and democratic procedures for "making decisions"),
<just that the power vacuum in anarchies such as ours is often an open
<invitation for someone to step in and "provide structure and guidance." I
<resisted any thoughts of doing this, and argued against this sort of thing
<whenever the topic came up in conversation. I chose to lead only by the
<posts I wrote and the ideas I worked on.

heh. perhaps "leadership" involves more than posting. perhaps there
is a way to have "leadership" without hierarchy. perhaps "leadership"
is not equivalent to "management". perhaps sometimes
you win by losing, and lose by winning. perhaps water is so powerful
because it is lower than all that which it flows around.

<Now, of course, the message is being sent that Sandy Sandfort is in some
<sense the de facto leader, being that he determines what traffic goes out
<to the main list and what traffic gets bounced into the flames list. In
<fact, I'll make a prediction: The media will see that he is the chief
<censor and arbiter of worthiness and will increasingly contact him for the
<Official Point of View on various items they are interested in.

timmy, why are you so upset about the media angle? why do you give the
slightest damn what the media thinks? answer: because you want to be
the one they call when they want to know what the cypherpunks think.
you want them to pay attention to the cypherpunks. in short, you would
like to have the glamor of a leader, without any of the responsibility.

<Namely, I realize that I don't want the karmic burdens of power myself,
<preferring to lead only by the example I set and the ideas I generate. This
<is why "market anarchies" (books, music, ideas, all things where "no ruler"
<exists) appeal to me so much.

I think you would be surprise at the realization that "leaders" exist
in those so-called "anarchies"

> And since I don't wish to assume the mantle
<of leadership, 

hmmmmmmmmmmmm, it seems to me that reliquishing that burden might entail
having decisions made that you do not agree with.

<I am resentful and suspicious of people who _do_ step into the
<"power vacuum" to lead and control.
<Now I grant you that Sandy's form of leadership and control is relatively

apparently in your brain, "lead" == "control"

<Yes, I'm seething. Sandy is right about that. I saw a group I helped create
<and spent thousands of hours on, writing articles and developing ideas
<choose--by fiat from the owner of the machine the list was being sent out
<from--to embrace the dark side, the control freak side. In the name of
<"comity," Sandy's term for the bonhomie he thinks he can cultivate, we lose
<our ideological purity.

hee, hee.

don't worry timmy, you'll feel better later after you've forgotten
that there was some deep lesson in all this.