From: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 14:41:47 -0800 (PST)
To: Blanc Weber <cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: RE: My Departure, Moderation, and "Ownership of the List"
Message-ID: <199702032241.OAA04539@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 1:15 PM -0800 2/3/97, Blanc Weber wrote:

>Your thoughtful contributions to the list are missed, Tim.   As soon as
>I realized that you had left the list I suspected it had something to do
>with its moderation.
>
>However, I must protest the inclusion of Toto's posts as one of the
>"inane".    His posts were intentionally formulated to cause to stand
>out what was, indeed, inane -  as he said, to "hold up a mirror".    And
>he continually decried the list experiment, pointing out the
>philosophical contradiction of a moderated "anarchist" forum.

Well, "Toto" wrote in a style I found hard to grasp, and his/her/its points
were often lost to me. But I was only scanning the list via the hks.net
archive site, and so may have missed the subtleties.

One way thoughtful posts get "absorbed" is when others quote them (or the
parts they like best, disagree with, etc.). This gives people a second or
third look. (And, of course, when one _replies_ to a post this is how it
gets read most carefully.)

I saw few people I respect a lot replying substantively to the posts of
some of these people who seemed to dominate the list in the last month, and
of course I myself did not reply to any of them, so whatever points they
were making were lost on me.

>If the antidote to bad speech is more speech, then he certainly provided
>some, although not on the level or style as yourself.   And you may say
>that some of these posts are not worth replying to, but didn't I see you
>respond to one of Dale's, regarding a photo of Jessica-the-pilot which
>he keeps above his desk?

Sure, but that was months ago. In any case, I didn't say Dale nor Toto nor
anyone else should be shunned; I posted when I felt like it.

Nor of course have I ever argued for censoring Toto or Dale or anyone else.
My point to Sandy was just that the new censorship policy was still clearly
letting a lot of crap^H^H^H^H "piffle" (a Sandy-used and hence
Sandy-approved synonym for "cr*p") through, and that certain folks were
issuing lots and lots of rants and raves.

Personally, I think "flames" are not the problem. Not flames from obviously
thoughtful folks who are angered or peeved about something. The "flames"
posted by bots--targetted at me, usually--were not especially helpful, but
I see nothing wrong with, say, Hallam-Baker flaming Bell. Or vice versa.
Flames and intense argument are often useful in explicating hard
subjects...and who can deny that Bell's ideas are controversial and may
generate intense opinions?

To expunge the list of Vulis' ASCII art and "Timmy May was born on a toilet
as the spawn of a dandruff-covered Armenian tchurka and his nekulturny
peasant mother" bot-generated insults we have apparently now gotten a list
where Lord Sandy apprises us that he almost rejected my long,
carefully-constructed essay because I committed the NewCyphepunk (TM) sin
of referring to Toto, Dale, Dimitri, and Nurgaine in unflattering ways.

Like I said, "fuck that."

Or, more politely, it's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Not to
mention sending the strong message that "Even Cypherpunks gave up their
experiment with anarchy and now have a moderator deciding what the main
list is permitted to read."

Far too high a price to pay for the "comity" Sandy craves.

(And if Sandy wants comity and good cheer, let him either form his own list
or establish a filtered list just the way Blossom and Arachelian did.
Hijacking the list to reform it in his own image is dirty pool.)

--Tim May

Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside"
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."