From: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 23:05:25 -0800 (PST)
To: "Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law" <cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: My Departure, Moderation, and "Ownership of the List"
In-Reply-To: <199702031455.GAA25476@toad.com>
Message-ID: <v03007806af1c8e4da79c@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 10:50 PM -0500 2/3/97, Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:
>I agree with two of Tim's points.  I express no opinion about the others,
>except that I think these are the two most important.
>
>(1) I agree with Tim that as a matter of principle, it would be preferable
>to create a new moderated list, with a similar but distinguishable name,
>and leave the existing list as it was.  I happen to think less turns on

This is a point of view many of the most thoughtful commenters seem to
agree on, isn't it? One would have thought that had Sandy and John really
been interested in hearing the views of list members, this approach would
have eventually won out.

>(2) Much to my surprise, so far moderation is a failure.  I think it is a

It doesn't surprise me, but then I've rarely been a fan of moderation. As
Michael points out below, it mostly works on "RISKS," but in most other
cases I can think of it merely slows discussion down, introduces strange
skewings of opinions (to win "approval" of the moderator), and almost never
causes better posts to be written.

(The case of skilled editors soliciting good articles is of course an
entirely different issue.)

>failure because it achieves neither of the moderation "sweet spots".  No
>moderation is one "sweet spot".  Strict moderation -- the kind you get on
>RISKS, where you know nearly every post is on-topic or at least worth your
>time -- is another. This is neither. My clumsy procmail filters are almost
>as busy as ever.  What slips through is largely duplicative of what I get

Several people have also commented on this, that their filters are still
working overtime. As it should be, really, as no moderator can make the
list match any given person's preferences.

(Personally, I'm not even convinced filters are essential. It takes no
longer than 5 seconds to glance at a message and know whether to scrap it
or not. Granted, it takes a bit of time to download, especially at slower
modem speeds. But whether Sandy's censorship is producing any significant
"savings" depends on how many messages he's sorting into each
pile...clearly if 20% or less of the total posts are being filtered out,
then the savings are ignorable. Anybody have the statistics handy? Hint:
Sandy should publish a periodic accounting of how many messages went into
each pile, and should also publish his criteria on a regular basis,
pointing out any modifications he's made to his criteria since the last
report.)

>As Oscar Wilde either said, or should have said, the worst crime is to be
>boring.

Maybe the list is like the portrait of Dorian Gray, with an image of the
list sitting in a closet at Toad Hall aging not so gracefully.

>PS. New members of the list may justly ask, where does he get off calling
>the posters he doesn't killfile bores?  I stopped posting a lot to the
>list some time ago, back when I decided my energies were better spent
>writing long stuff (see my web page) and playing with my kids.  I kept
>reading the list primarily to read the work of about six people -- and Tim
>was one of them.

Thanks. And I should point out in fairness that Michael recruited me for
his panel on "Governmental and Societal Implications of Digital Cash" (or
something like this) at the upcoming CFP.

--Tim May

Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside"
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."