From: Truth Mongrel <tm@woof.nut>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 05:16:57 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CypherPunks Hash Distribution Network / Combined thread
Message-ID: <199703281314.HAA06653@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> As far as I understand, the process of building a distributed network of
> cypherpunks mailing lists is logically complete. It means that the following
> list servers are now connected:
> ssz.com <---> algebra  <----> cyberpass
> Again, you are free to do so and your Cc-copies will NOT cause any
> duplication of traffic because each mailing list server employs an
> anti-duplicate filter. It is just a waste of your keyboard typing.

> Dale Thorn @ bat:
>> That's funny - I unsuscrived to toad, and 'scribed to cyberpass and
>> algebra.  I have been getting an average of 2-1/2 of each message
>> that comes through.  Mostly three's, a few two's, and an occasional
>> five or six copies.

  It sounds to me as if we might already have a naturally recurring
parallax to a hash-collusion system here.
  In other misued words, perchance the ASCII art spams and multiple
copies of various posts, which became common fare for anyone who
followed the moderation/censorship experiment/dictatorship of 
Gilmore/Sandfort and Toad/C2Net in Jan/Feb, are nature's way of
exacting a cost for subscription to the CypherPunks list(s).

  Perhaps the good Dr.Vulis DV K, rather than being called a flamer,
should be referred to as our good friend, Mr. Fire, who helps to 
clear the deadwood out of the forest.
  Apparently, over a thousand pieces of deadwood were cleared
in the last cycle of flamewars. ("Run, Bambi. Run!")

  Below, agreeing with me (in my dreams):
Hal Finney wrote:
> Adam Back writes:
> > [ Re idea to for a nym to "post a bond" to enhance reputation]
> > Your suggestion is another neat way of passing expense and tying an
> > investment to a nyms reputation.
> > X-reputation: 64 bit SHA1 collision
> > or
> > X-reputation: $100 digicash
> >
> Don't forget though, it's not really a payment system.  The hash
> collisions can't be exchanged for anything in the real world.
> They represent a certain threshold of effort which someone has to have
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (emphasis mine)
> expended to create them, but they can't replace cash.  At best they
> could be sort of a "play money" which some people choose to accept.
> 
> I do like your idea of using it as an incoming spam filter, though.
> (By spam I mean mass mailings.) 

  Which begs the question, is the current system capable of acting
as an outgoing filter? Can it glean out the losers who are cruising
for an easy view of cryptography issues, and help maintain a higher
level of membership, limiting it to losers who have a more dedicated
interest/psychosis in privacy/paranoia cryptography/disinformation
issues.

> > - and anyway I've nearly finished implementing it (I'll post the hash
> >   cash postage money mint (collision generator) and remailer plug-in
> >   for postage later on today) where as not many people have digicash
> >   accounts.

  Perhaps if Dale developed an 'outgoing filter' system to go with
Adam's 'incoming filter' system, we could have the best of both
worlds, being saved from "Make $$$ Fast" spams, but having to use
our delete keys to ante-up in regard to our own list loons.
  We could also institute a 'bad hash' system, where bad-hashes
like Tim C. May could use their guns to balance the threat of
legal actions from bad-hashes like Greg Broiles.

  With new developments such as these, to thwart the efforts of
anti-thwarters to bring balance and sanity to the list, perhaps
the CypherPunks can bypass the inevitable evolutionary extinction
of the 'bug-fixed' victims of insect vasectomies, and bring in
the new millenium as the longest running wash-out-your-mouth-with
Soap Opera on the InterNet, staying one step ahead of the guys
with the ButterflyNet.

  The Truth of the Mongrel is, that we obviously need to develop
a system that makes certain the spam we receive is CypherSpam.
The loons on the list should be CypherLoons. Our membership
should consist of CypherIdiots, CypherNewbies, CypherElitists,
CypherLosers, CypherCynics, CypherSpooks and CypherGenius'.

  Where else can movers and shakers like Robert Hettinga join
in an list-takeover attempt, call for the killing of the list,
and then, like a whirling dervish acting as his own spin doctor,
re-appear, riding on the back of the CypherXenix rising from the 
ashes, and genuinely declare, "I *love* this list."?
  Where else can CypherWoofers like Toto roundly condemn Sandfart
<spit>* and Gilmore <swallow>* as fascist censors, then praise
his own bum-buddy, Igor Chewed-Off <commie>*, for his site blocking 
efforts, and then cynically whine when his own "Make Big $$$ Licking 
Your Own Nuts At Home" bulk-emails are intercepted and deleted?
(* - ASCII Graphicology allegedly (c) DV K Bot-ling Plant, No-Inc.)

  Where else can Afro-American cryptographers have their native
tongue, Ebonics, recognized as a valid encryption system?
  Where else can you be guaranteed that your typoos will be 
forwarded to Ft. Meade, to be pored over by military analysts
for hidden meaning, quite possibly launching world infowars as
a result of drunken, sticky fingers.

  The CypherPunks list, love it or leave it, is still, far and away, 
the best show in town.
  ("If I can make it theeerrre...I can make it anywheeerrre..")

  And the way this relates to cryptography is...my brain is 
scrambled/encrypted.

Anarchist (Don't) Rule!

Truth Mongrel
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just say "No" to "Bad Dog Inside"
We got nuts, we're peeing on telephone poles, I know that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Truth Mongrel               | Doggie Anarchy: cats chased, bones buried,
tm@woof.nut                 | anonymous droppings, analog come-calling
Woof! Woof!                 | legs lifted, territories marked
"Yard fences aren't even speed bumps on the garbage sniffing alleyway."