From: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:58:53 -0800 (PST)
To: Jonathan Gaw <cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: "why privacy" revisited
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970322114749.006dfcbc@pconline.com>
Message-ID: <v03007813af59dc8615c6@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:47 AM -0600 3/22/97, Jonathan Gaw wrote:
>when i talk to people like the Direct Marketer's Assn., they honestly don't
>understand what the fuss is about. Their attitude is, quite literally,
>"What's the harm being done here?"

And why should they care what "harm" (putatively) is being done to those
who voluntarily use credit cards, etc.?

The issue is really quite analogous to the situation with those who
publically post articles, such as we are doing here (when secure nyms are
not being used). Imagine someone writing:

"when i talk to people like the maintainers of the Cypherpunks archive
site, they honestly don't understand what the fuss is about. Their attitude
is, quite literally, "What's the harm being done here?" "

Indeed, those who post public articles do so with the realization that
their words may be remembered, may be linked to their meatspace names, may
be filed away in dossiers, and so on. How could it be otherwise in a
nominally free society?

(Cypherpunks should of course reject statist laws like the so-called "Data
Privacy Laws" many European nations have adopted. If Alice says something
publically, or used the bankruptcy courts, or whatever, and Bob "remembers"
it, either in writing or in his head, no one is entitled to inspect his
file cabinets or tell him what he is allowed to "remember." If Alice wants
parts of her life held private, it is almost completely her responsibility
to keep these parts private, not rely on men with guns to do it for her.)


>what do you think the community interested in privacy protection can do to
>best illustrate to the general public the "harm" in the collection of
>personal information?

This places the focus in the wrong place. The problem is not with the
compilers of publically-offered information (assuming no contract exists to
keep the information offered private).

We should never, never, never push for legislative fixes to such alleged
problems. (For many reasons. Eric Hughes has pointed out some of them,
others of us have written extensively about technological over legislative
fixes, etc.)

"Educating the masses" is also usually a waste of time.

--Tim May


Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside"
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."