From: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:15:38 -0800 (PST)
To: Greg Broiles <cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: The Pro-CODE Bill could make things worse!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970306211056.006e7930@mail.io.com>
Message-ID: <v03007801af45628aae35@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 9:11 PM -0800 3/6/97, Greg Broiles wrote:
>At 07:30 AM 3/6/97 -0500, Bill Stewart wrote:
>>At 06:44 AM 3/5/97 -0800, Greg Broiles wrote:
>> >"Exports. The publisher or manufacturer of computer software or
>> >hardware with encryption capabilities shall disclose (for reporting
>> >purposes only) within 30 days after export to the Secretary such
>> >information regarding a program's or product's encryption capabilities
>> >as would be required for an individual license to export that program
>> >or product."
>>
>> Can it be construed as a "taking"?
>
>The usual "takings" rule is that property must be rendered [virtually]
>worthless by regulations/legislation, not just burdened, in order for
>government to have effected a "taking". So it's hard to say that burdening

Though I've read parts of the book, "Takings," excerpted in "Liberty" and
"Reason," which discuss takings in other contexts, such as where land is
declared to be marshland...not rendered worthles, but very much burdened
over what it had been before. But this may be a slight difference, as land
declared to be marshland is _almost_ worthless, for humans.

>the use/sale of crypto constitutes a taking. And I think it'd be hard to
>say that the mandatory reporting is a "taking" of information, mostly
>because (modulo trade secret) it's neither unusual nor illegal for the
>government to require other information disclosures, without compensation
>and for the government's own nefarious purposes. (See, e.g., tax forms,
>business registrations, SEC filings, various real/personal property
>tracking schemes.) Also, that "taking" does not destroy the information or
>render it worthless.

If the government said that people could have private diaries provided they
deposited a copy with the government, woudn't this be analogous to these
examples of reporting you cite? I'd call it a "taking," or a violation of
the Fourth.

Such reporting requirements have very real costs, and many scholars are
arguing that they are in fact "takings."

(When I was at Intel, as I've said before, one set of laws demanded that we
give detailed reports on the racial makeup of those we interviewed for
employment, to ensure we met the proper EEOC quotas for interviews (and
hires) of various racial groups. Another law said asking applicants to
state their race and ethnicity was a high crime. So we had to guess. I got
in trouble for writing down "Aryan" for some of the white applicants. I
figured if they wanted this kind of crap, I'd give it to them. I also
estimated the percentage of Jewish blood in some of the applicants, with
anyone with more than 1/16th Jewish blood declared to be "non-Aryan." My
boss was not amused. They never sent me out on college recruiting trips
after 1979.)


>Which is not to say that I like the rule (I don't), but I don't think that
>a court will see a "taking" here.

Well, I agree. If the courts did not see the imprisonment of 15-18 jurors
for more time than the killer O.J. served as a "taking," with their time
valued at the princely sum of $5 a day (what I would call "rendered
worthless"), then nothing will be ruled a taking.

The only solution is to use crypto anarchy to destabilize the system and,
hopefull, see them swinging by their necks in front of the Washington
Monument. Nearly every politician I'm aware of has richly earned the death
penalty, and I hope to see in my lifetime justice carried out.

--Tim May



Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside"
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."